00:00 Welcome to the Nature's Panel with extreme Ag, where we're asking the question and we'll be addressing the answers. 00:06 And we'll also be taking your questions, how late is too late? Does late season fertility work? 00:13 And if so, what do you need to know to make your dollar investment give you a return? That's a question we're digging into. 00:19 This is an awesome session. We're gonna learn a lot here at Commodity Classic 2024. We know you make a big investment to be here. 00:26 We wanna make it worth your while. Tommy Roach is down here on the end. Tommy Roach is with Nature's. He is our technical guy. 00:33 He's an agronomy guy. He's our friend and he can answer all your agronomic questions. Sitting next to him is Temple Rhodes. Temple. 00:40 Rhodes is a Maryland farmer. He is an extreme ag guy. He's got awesome stuff to share with you. Next to him or next to me is Chad Henderson, Madison, 00:48 Alabama, one of the original founders of Extreme Ag, and then Kelly Garrett, Northwest Iowa, one of the original founders of Extreme Ag. 00:54 We're gonna lead off here. I'm gonna ask the question to Chad. Chad is kind of our send it guy. 00:59 Chad has never ever thought, you know what? That crop is made. There's no reason. There's no reason to keep going. 01:05 He's all about send it, send it, send it. So Chad, and by the way, who the hell put on images of Cuba on this TV behind me? 01:15 Good. I think maybe we could just turn it off. Okay, there we go. Alright, Chad, uh, let's just go right out here. 01:22 Is it ever too late for fertility? Let's go, let's go with the last question they wanna ask. How late is too late? I 01:27 Don't know if it's ever too late. I really don't know if it's ever too late. You know, we wanna keep that plant alive, keep 01:31 that plant going, keep it pushing far as we can. Now let's take a lot of things else in con consideration. What's your weather around it? Too late. 01:39 It's too late according to what kind of plant you got and what kind of, what kind of factory you have built. So, you know, it's kind of a loaded question. 01:48 Damien set me up there. How late's too late. You know, um, I don't think it's ever too late. All Right, at some point, that plant and, and, 01:55 and there's every farmer that's sitting out here and standing out here knows at some point that crop is made. All you're doing is wasting money. You're going out there. 02:04 That crop is made. You know what? You're throwing good money after. Bad stop doing it. Am I right? 02:11 There is a too late piece there. We've been, Chad and I have been working on this for going on three years now. 02:18 And what we found was, is we were trying to do things by stages of crops, and it worked very, very well. But we weren't exactly to an exact pinpoint. 02:28 So we started diving down a little bit deeper, and we started looking into exact, when the Gdu came in, we dove in a little bit deeper 02:35 and we started looking past just the stages of the crops. And one of the ones that I did this year is I took that, 02:42 that a step further. And we went down in there and we went at like 1900 gdu, 2100 gdu, and kept on going on and on and on. 02:51 And I got to one where this one variety that I had was black layering at 2,720 gdu. And what happened was, is when I got to 25 50, 03:03 I actually reduced the yield. That was the first time I ever got to it where I reduced the yield. 03:08 I don't know what happened, Tommy. You'd have to tell me what happened. I'm not that smart, but I, alls I 03:12 know is the combine showed it. So, And, and this is an, an opinion, but even when he's get to his, what he was talking about, 03:23 remember, plant still has to quote unquote digest what he just put on it, even though it's nutrition plant still got to deal with it. 03:32 Um, so in in that case, it was too late. So, you know what, gdu is a better way to gauge what, what is too late versus just a general 03:46 R two, R three, whatever stage. I think the fertility that we're applying at V 10, R one and R five is the most important fertility of the year. 03:57 I, I, we don't look at the GDU as much. We look at our SAP samples, we look at the balance of the plant, and 04:03 that fertility is the most important Fertility, that fertility earlier than that tends to produce a lot of vegetation. 04:09 That doesn't produce a lot of bushels. All right, let's go with, uh, let's go with, if you will, then. 04:15 The, the point that we're making here is you used to not push it this much at the end, right? And so when did you start saying, you know what, 04:24 I think I might go out there and try this one more thing and then kind of go about the evolution 04:29 of you pushing it more and more late and saying, man, I actually got a return on that investment. We, we still sell weight. 04:36 You know, it's not about bushels, it's about weight, right? So we've already, by that time, we've got our rows around, 04:42 we've got our length, all that's done, but we're putting weight into that, into that ear. We're putting weight into it. 04:48 And that's what we're working on. You know, we want to come outta there with a 61, 62, 63, 64, you know, talk to some of these guys. 04:56 We gotta get that test weighed up because it's only gonna be so much ear out there. Yes, absolutely. We're, you know, every plant will flex 05:05 regardless if you can see it or not. Whether it's a second ear or a bigger kernel where it doesn't dent as much like that, 05:10 where we're making a bigger soybean. And that happens in the reproductive stages. Uh, the agronomists that we work 05:16 with outta Idaho says American agriculture produces a very sexy looking vegetative crop. 05:21 And that's a mistake. We need to be producing a reproductive crop. And that happens in the R stages. 05:26 Alright, Tommy's gonna help us out on that. Uh, it was an interesting thing. I was at Kelly's in June of, uh, 2023. 05:33 I looked out that soybean field and I said, you know what? I would be embarrassed of this field. 05:37 And he said, no, no, no. And he said, first of off, it's been really dry, it's been really hot. 05:40 And I said, I don't know, man, this thing looks like crap. I think this is an ugly ass field. 05:44 And so then Kelly said, listen, you're, you're like most landowners, he was a little bit insulting back to me 05:50 because I told him his field looked like crap. He said, you're like most landowners, you want to drive out here from this town and look at it 05:56 and say, oh yeah, my farmer does a great job. Those fields are amazing. Look at those. Amazing. He says, all you guys, a whole bunch of vegetative growth. 06:04 And it doesn't put bushels in the combine. Speak to that. I wanna go back to something Kelly said 06:11 When we talk about nutrition, we're not, we're not gonna make a, generally speaking, a special trip across the field just 06:19 to put on late season nutrition. It's got to be included in with a basic tasks that you're already doing. 06:27 Whether it's a wide drop pass, a that you're putting on nitrogen, a fungicide pass. You've got, you got Spanx in that tank to put nutrition. 06:39 And I guarantee you, most people sitting here may not do anything late season. What, what I would call late season. 06:51 I apologize, but I disagree. I'm making passes to put on that late season nutrition. You ation because makes an ROI. No, you fer it. 06:58 And you know what 30% of farmers are putting on fungicide with the plane That's at R one or R three. 07:04 I'm now flying a plane at V 10, R one and R five because that's when I want put my fertility on. And in $4 corn, everybody's looking to cut bushels. 07:12 We talked about that. I talked about that upstairs with someone else this morning. I think you should be cutting out your dry 07:17 because your soil is a savings account. Your dry p and k is in that soil. You can draw on that. Skipping that for one year with $4 corn is not going to, 07:26 is not gonna give you a yield penalty. But skipping this r stage fertility is gonna give you a yield penalty. 07:32 Everybody's cut. I shouldn't say things like everybody, but the average grower is gonna cut the wrong thing out of their program this year because of a tough economic time. 07:39 And you know, Damien talking about the soybeans, you want to save some money, quit planting them so thick. 07:44 The reason those beans look poor is because they were producing a root system, not producing vegetation. 07:51 Don't why we gotta quit inducing so much vegetation. He's just making an excuse 'cause they look like crap. Okay, they might have looked like crap. 07:59 But the other thing is, remember if you have a question, and I want to go ahead and talk about the reproduction 08:04 or the, um, I'm sorry, the population, because that's not exactly the topic, but it kind of is. Kelly has been leading the charge 08:09 and so have the other extre act guys on reducing population, reducing population. 08:14 It looks ugly. There's a lot more bare space, but on soybeans, they fill in, they bush out. We've learned that, you've learned that. 08:20 Um, is that changed then the fertility mix? Because again, it seems to me that those fertility, the fertility needs are gonna happen later in the season 08:30 for those plants because they're bigger and, and, and have more on 'em. Am I right? I, I think so. We're reducing the veg, the, 08:36 the population of the soybean. And then in the our stage, we're really pushing that growth to fill out a bigger soybean. 08:41 You can only manipulate or enhance the yield of a soybean two times. How many, how many pods are we gonna put on? 08:48 And how big is a bean gonna be in the pod? That's it. That's your two chances right there. And you can, and the size of that bean is in the R stages. 08:57 I, I think, you know, going back to every question that we've been asked today is, you know, how do we cut? How do we cut, how do we cut? And I agree with Kelly. 09:07 I I don't know that I necessarily am gonna cut anything. What we're talking about is treating each stage of the crop 09:15 for what that plant needs at that time. And that's key. That is all goes back to efficiency. I can more efficiently grow that plant. 09:25 I can more efficiently utilize my money. I can pull out of one area and put into the other area. I also agree with these guys, like we've been on this path 09:34 of treating, you know, taking fertility and putting it at the end for quite a few years now. And it is the one thing that I'm not gonna cut out. 09:42 I'm not necessarily sure that, you know, every guy's gonna be like me, Tommy or Chad or Kelly, and we're gonna be adding more passes. 09:50 But I'm finding that I'm adding more and more passes, especially if we own our own sprayer. You almost have to find a way to pay 09:57 for them sprayers anymore. Look around, they're expensive. If I can make another pass, 10:02 get a little more ROI outta my sprayer by growing more bushels and being more efficient, doing a better job with efficiency 10:09 of my money, this is a win-win for me. I don't know if you guys were listening right there, what Temple just said is if you're at Commodity Classic 10:16 and you walk by one of these booths and they wanna sell you a $900,000 sprayer, buy it and then make up reasons to go out 10:22 and drive around your farm with it. Is that pretty much what I heard everybody All temple? I'm sorry. Uh, Tommy, you said something in one 10:31 of our sessions last year and, and some of you have been repeat, uh, attenders, which we appreciate, not repeat offenders, repeat attenders. 10:38 We talked last year about targeting periods of influence. I don't know if you remember that last year, those of you 10:43 that were here targeting periods of influence. And we're talking about plant growth. And that's a very different thing. 10:49 Our friend Matt Miles right here with extreme Ag says, Hey, I'll admit it. In the old days I was lazy actually, 10:54 maybe he wasn't lazy, he was conventional. He went out at the beginning of the season and flinged out all kinds of bulk fertilizer you've learned. 11:01 It's a waste, especially in your soils. You've got tremendous leaching problem. By July it might be gone. 11:07 And then last year we did that session and Tommy, uh, introduced a topic and we had a great discussion on it. 11:13 Targeting periods of influence, putting the right product at the right time, at the right place, all those kinds of things. 11:19 And what we're kind of talking about now is a targeted period of influence. Late season. Kelly thinks it's the most important. 11:26 He thinks, you know, it's pretty important. Chad says, I'm still not sure I've gotten to where I wasted it because I'm still going out there like 11:32 he's sometimes putting on fertility a day before the combine runs. What's the most important period of influence? 11:40 I'll agree with all these guys. It is definitely in the, if you want to call it R one, R three stage in beans, you know, R two, 11:49 R four five stage in corn. If you look at, and I can't get this to work, but if you look at micro uptake, 11:59 even at r as late as R two, R three, that plant is still actively taking up those nutrients. It's not in real, it's not in real 12:09 reallocation within the plant yet. So why not throw, which I Chad, he's tried to kill a crop with boron before it work. It'll turn 12:19 Him white. Like I mean now, yeah, I know I showed him boron toxicity, but it took pounds. 12:24 So that's why pounds. So one of Damien's bottles down there that he has Is it, it's not Coors, I promise you it's a bottle, 12:35 but it's it's, it is fertility. You want me to bring up Moneyball or The other one? Yeah, no, no, no. 12:38 Moneyball. Okay. This is a product called Moneyball and Tommy's gonna tell us all about it. The analysis and what you're trying to do with it. 12:44 I'm going to, so we, here's why we put in especially Micros late season with fungicide. Here's a micro pack that is basically targeting 12:57 nitrogen utilization. And when you get to that stage in corn growth or in soybean growth, that's what you're trying 13:06 to do is enhance the utilization of nitrogen in that plant. Boron, molly, cobalt, manganese, copper, 13:18 all of those five nutrients, target nitrogen utilization. Best place to do it is with fungicide, 13:27 whether it's beans or corn. So is that a late, like the last fungicide pass? Some of these guys put on more than one fungicide. 13:32 Pass last. Pass the last pass. So you're putting that in the same tank mix with the fungicide, correct? 13:38 Don't be mad tempo. We didn't dream up a way to go out and drive around with our new sprayer twice. We're just gonna go ahead, save a trip, 13:44 diesel's $5 a gallon. Okay? Anyway, we're using this product, Moneyball, is it available right now? 13:50 It will be in March. It's gonna be available. I just released this this morning. You just released Moneyball this morning. 13:55 So the pro, go ahead and what's the analysis? And Six and a half boron, uh, 0.5 Molly, go 0.1 manganese, 0.15 copper and a little bit 14:07 Of coke. A product like this. Are you putting on fertility right now, Chad, with your last fungicide pass? You are right? 14:14 Yes sir. Okay. Does it sound like that? Yes sir. So, so let's just talk about that for a second. You know, we throwed a whole lot at you 14:21 and I know it's bounced back and forth, you know, um, but right now let's just talk about, today we're talking about $4 corn, right? 14:28 Well, I mean, what are we talking about? Okay. And that's serious. And that's today. So what is your plan? You know, you'll hear me say all the time, you know, it's 14:35 what Mike Tyson say, everybody got a plan to get punched in the mouth, $4 corn's punched in the mouth. So when we do that, you gotta go 14:42 with your plan and stay with your plan. If you decide that this is the avenue you're gonna go with, you've gotta make some adjustments. 14:48 We can't add money to it. We can't just just take off. Let's just put another treatment on, let's just put another treatment on. 14:54 We're just building a, we're just building up our money. So figure out what your fertility program needs to be. 15:00 And this is where this stuff gets in the game. So when we talk about we ain't using no more dry because Kelly don't, well it's 15:06 because Kelly's pushed all of it back. We understand where we need to be and we can make a corn plant beautiful and sexy. 15:12 And I'm with Kelly, like it's all good, but it don't put any bushels in the tank. Does it need to be happy at V five? 15:19 We know that V three, V four, yeah, we know that, but there's certain times that we can trigger this stuff and that's the times we're talking about. 15:26 You know, it chad's right about the plant needs to be happy at V three and V four, but we have to learn that 15:32 that just isn't a visual measurement. That just because you're looking at the plant and it's nice and green and attractive 15:38 and sexy looking, that doesn't necessarily mean that the plant's happy. It might be out of balance, 15:43 there could be too much nitrogen in there. It's all about the balance. And we need to find a way to measure that. 15:48 And the micronutrients are the pathway to that, that great looking green crop. Or those 150,000 soybean populations per acre, boy, 15:56 they look good and green and then they get tall and they fall over and they don't produce because it's all about vegetation. 16:01 And we've, I can't, I can't stress enough. I try to get away from that. Honestly, it's one of my big takeaways. 16:07 Uh, I learn all the time, just like you do from extreme Ag Farm and extreme Ag Field days, extreme Ag Podcast, 16:13 cutting the curve, et cetera. Uh, when he said, Damian, I don't mind if this field looks bad as soybeans in June. I care what it looks like when 16:20 a combine's running in October. And I think that's a big thing because it it, it's hard to look at something 16:26 that's not pretty knowing that your, your idea thinks, oh, it's gotta be a really vegetative field. 16:31 Temple gdu versus growth stage gdu versus days in the ground. gdu versus, um, looking at how tall the plant is. 16:42 You and Chad are getting really in depth on growing degree units. You're gonna put out targeted periods 16:49 of influence the fertility based on growing degree units. Talk to me. So, uh, like I kind of alluded to earlier, it's, it's 16:57 so easy to to mess up, you know, your staging of your crop and not knowing exactly when that time is. 17:03 Is it really R one? Is it really R two? But we needed to get, we needed to pinpoint exactly because you know, the couple years that Chad 17:11 and I first did it, we knew it was at, you know, X stage when we made that late season application. Well, he got a little bit more response than what I did. 17:19 And another time, you know, I got more response than he did and we didn't know exactly why this was going on. 17:24 So we needed to, to pinpoint the exact area. So an example, um, last year where I did mine at, um, Tommy helped me out with, with all of it 17:34 and was money bowling that it was not, I know what it, it was my mixture and you turned it into Moneyball. So you basically robbed me. Where's my cut name? 17:48 I have another name for another product, but I'm not allowed to say it on stage 'cause Chad made this one up. 17:53 That's Chad's fault and it stuck. So, um, when we dove into this, we kind of started at that. We started at, so first of all, this was a DCO number. 18:03 This is where I did my NCGA trial at. So it was kind of a send it plot, you know, of ours. And we kind of staged it back 18:12 and we were like, okay, let's start at 1900 gdu. This particular variety finished up at 27 20 exactly. So at black layer. 18:21 So I needed to see exactly how much influence I could make on each one of them. And each one of the products that we were putting out there 18:28 that Tommy and I talked about, and Chad, we were doing each one for a specific reason, right? 18:33 So we had a high in phosphorus. My ground is low in phosphorus. I have inherent problems 18:38 with phosphorus getting it into the plant. So you know, phosphorus, you know, in a late part of the, the plant's life and the, our stages, 18:46 it's using up 50% of it. So we wanted to figure out where we could trigger 'em the most to get the biggest ROI out of. 18:53 So at 1900, you know, it was really good like that 10 acre trial was running, you know, when we took a strip outta the middle, it was like three 30. 19:02 Well then we did another one at like 2100. That strip right there came out and it was like 3 40, 3 50. And we were like, holy moly, 19:12 like this is okay, that's a sweet spot. Then we jumped over and we got into 2,250 gdu. We made that airplane pass 19:20 that happened when we were standing out there at our field day and Chad was making fun 19:25 of the airplane going across there. He's like, look at him. He ain't got nothing in it. It's just watering in and come back the other way. 19:30 And it was black coming out. He was like, oh yeah, he got it this time. So he made that pass that day. And that was 2,250 gdu. 19:37 That plant was done. Black layer 2,700. That was where I did my NCGA trial at, and it come out at 3 75. 19:45 So by the time I got that done, we put in two more. Another one was at 2000, 2450 GTOs, 1 20, 25 50. And when I got past that point, 19:56 it was the diminishing return, the, the yield started going back down the other way. So we fi we think we kind of got a better idea where 20:04 to pinpoint these at to give us, you know, you gotta get that return on an investment. 20:09 It makes me feel way better if you're gonna go out there and apply this on a thousand acres. 20:12 That's not necessarily a cheap trip, but there was a lot of yield gain in each one of them. But knowing exactly 20:19 what you need on your own dirt out there at that time is a big help. So a lot of the things that he was using 20:27 ends up being the, what this is. So I need to cut. Talk to me later. So don't, the only thing that we added to his, that's not in here, not that y'all care, 20:41 but magnesium is probably the one, one of the hardest nutrients to formulate with. And y'all could care less, but it was in his mix. 20:51 'cause magnesium does what? I don't know. You're chlorophyll, you're, you're the pro, you 20:58 Tell chlorophyll photosynthesis, right? That's why. So we, we kind of custom blended it for the most part basically for what I realize over years 21:09 and years of data of t tissue samples, knowing at that time what my bell curve is that goes down. 21:15 So some of these things might be a little bit customized on your guys' inherent ground and what you need at that time. 21:22 But what I will tell you is for phosphorus needs for me, I can't expect to put it in the beginning 21:30 and put it all my phosphorus needs out there and expect it to be in the end. That's where I think I've had the most gain with my stuff. 21:37 Hang on a second, these guys are geeking out a little bit too much over here on agronomics. 21:40 I think we can all agree they almost had a little tris over magnesium. I don't know if you guys noticed that. 21:46 So let's go ahead and go over here to my friend Kelly Garrett SAP testing and um, and then bring it back to late season fertility. 21:54 We don't worry as much about the growth stage or the DD gdu. We take a SAP sample every week 21:59 and we're trying to balance the plant. You know, the, the plant takes micronutrients, makes amino acids to convert the nitrogen 22:06 to protein in my soil that Chad and Tim will gimme a hard time about. I've got too much nitrogen. It just continued. 22:12 The microbial system, biological system continues to produce it and we outrun our micronutrients, we outrun our amino acids. 22:20 So that's my goal of putting on a product like Moneyball is to, is to provide those, 22:26 or supplement those micronutrients to assimilate or balance that plant with all the nitrogen that's out there and let it reach its potential. 22:34 What, Hey, wait, did you say hang on, we got a question right here for my friend. Kurt. Kurt question. 22:39 Yeah. Did you say SAP to SAP instead of tissue samples or a difference? Yes. We, we use a SAP sample. 22:46 Uh, we send 'em off to new age. It's a lab in Michigan. They, uh, they take the SAP out of the flow and xylem so we can see what's moving in the plant 22:54 and then it becomes predictive. The tissue samples for us. The data isn't tight enough 22:59 and we can't, we don't, we don't feel that we learned very much anymore from it. We've gone away from it. 23:03 Awesome. But we got a question from Kurt. Anybody else has a question? Raise your hand. We are here to make this 23:08 as interactive and informative as possible. Hang on a second. This is our friend Joel who's from Oregon. Oregon. 23:17 All right. Two part question. You're talking about moving, getting ready to dry and moving it late, but how much can a guy move? 23:24 I mean, you gotta build the plant otherwise there's no point in going late 'cause you got a plant like that. 23:30 And then second part on the same, I know it's getting vary a little bit. What would you say are your guys' biggest nutrients? 23:38 You're chasing light. Perfect. So, um, Joel, one of the things that we look at, if you look at, uh, a usage chart of 23:49 what a plant requires at any one growth stage. So we'll just do corn for example, from emergence until, uh, about V six. 23:59 We need six pounds of available phosphorus to get into that plant. So you look at how am I gonna get that into that plant? 24:06 So for me, I'm gonna put it in furrow or in a tuba two and I'm gonna quickly get it in there as possible because I don't want it to tie up in my soul. 24:14 So that's the phosphorus needs. You're, that's where your groundwork is building your, you're trying to build a fortress of a plant. 24:21 Phosphorus does multiple different things. It can help you with cold, wet soil. It can also help you build a big root system. 24:28 All those things are stress mitigators. So I'm trying to figure out from, you know, emergence till V six, my goal is to figure out exactly 24:38 what I need with all my nutrients and I just use phosphorus, for instance. Um, and then from V six till, um, you know, tassel, 24:49 you know, Kelly talked about it. That's the whole time that I'm making biomass. And last year I had a massive problem. 24:55 Tommy had to help me out with it. Um, I had a LS damage out there. So I realized in my crop, um, that I had, 25:03 I was taking no nutrients through that, that timeframe, but yet I still came out of it with some of the best irrigated corn I've ever grown. 25:11 So I'm realizing that I can drag that through and kind of take some of that center section out. So I I, I agree with you that 25:18 that first initial getting it into the plant, getting it established, getting all that going, building a root system, you're building a fortress. 25:26 Damien and I did a, a thing on building a fortress. All of that matters. It's the center section that I am moving back. 25:35 'cause I'm getting, I'm ramping up and I'm getting ready for reproductive. Okay, so a lot of things I'm gonna move, 25:40 I'll move into that. Joel asked the question then. Uh, while you're chasing fertility, the nutrition deficiency that presents itself late that you struggled with. 25:52 So did, can you guys each address that? Like he's saying, if, if we're talking about late season fertility, 25:57 which is the subject of this whole entire panel, what things specifically are you targeting mostly at the end? 26:02 Where's the most efficiency at the end? I think it's one of Joel's questions. So For, for me it's phosphorus. 26:07 Okay? Like we put it out, you know, whatever you want use, you know, um, phosphorus that you want to use. 26:13 Some are definitely cleaner than others, but, um, whatever you wanna use in the front, use it in the front. 26:18 Okay? But look at, again, look at that chart. Look at the chart of whatever you're growing beans or corn or whatever, and look at where that ramps up at 26:23 and try to figure out how to get it available. Not just out there. Get it available prior to that. And there's other things we can use to get that available. 26:30 So that's what we was chasing on corn, you know, was was that peak. Now on the other parts, 26:35 you talking about the cutting the dry out. So we've, you know, we can, we can do that. We've got some ground that, that are going to houses. 26:40 It's turning to concrete and they putting Amazon on 'em and uh, other places, you know, and that ain't, that ain't real good for us. 26:46 But for doing that, I've went 5, 6, 7 crops and it not affected, you know, and they think, oh my goodness, you know, we're going 26:54 to just, it's gonna be a desert, it ain't gonna grow nothing. It's gonna be sand, you know. 26:57 So it, it's not that way because when we start built big crops make big crops, right? Y'all agree to that? Big crops make big crops. 27:05 So when we're putting this stuff back in the ground as fodder, it's available in that farm. So we just keep kind of regen, regenerating, 27:11 that's the word I'm trying to use. Regenerating. So that's the word we have to use today, check box. 27:16 So we keep, uh, regenerating this, you know, and, and with doing that, with doing that, that gets us to where we can manage that at that time. 27:26 When I do that, I make sure I pinpoint on the pH side of it. 'cause pH is a start. We gotta start 27:30 with the pH and then work from there. Alright? Uh, Kelly, going off of Joel's question, late season that which you think is most efficient, that you 27:38 being cognizant of the most deficient problem to address late season, My late season pass would have a product like Moneyball in 27:46 it and potassium and can I talk about the dry fertilizer? Why, why don't you go buy a 400 bushel blend 27:53 of dry fertilizer and put it out there Exactly, because there's no such thing I that from him right there. Why? So we, you know, we dry fertilizer people listening, 28:02 but you're worried about skipping a year and having it go down, but yet you don't want to go spend uh, pay 28:09 for a 400 bushel blend because you know you're not gonna raise 400 bushel. So why do you think skipping one year is 28:15 gonna give you a big deficit? And, but I can't answer whether it's okay for you to skip or not because I don't know what your soil test is. 28:22 But I'm gonna guess because you're progressive enough to be here today. I'm gonna guess it's okay right here. 28:27 You wanna see, nobody's ever tried this before, but him, he bought a 400 bushel blend of fertilizer. Stewart and Mike probably thought he was crazy, 28:34 but he bought a 400 bushel blend of fertilizer, turned the ground white in the middle of a field and he went out and he combined it. 28:41 That was six years ago. You still can't pick it up on the yield test. So why do you think skipping one year is gonna cause you a 28:46 problem if you skip one year? What we're talking about up here, you will see a difference on your yield monitor. 28:52 That's an awesome point right there. The point is, he, you Chad killed it one year with just threw out 28:57 more fertilizer than you could ever imagine. It didn't make a difference the following year. Well, who's standing here doesn't wanna 29:01 raise 400 bushel corn? Why don't you buy a 400 bushel blend and go do it? Because You can't because you can't. Alright, 29:07 got another, got a question over here from Stuart Sanderson speaking of the person that thought he was crazy, Stuart. 29:13 Alright, so just looking at a product like this money ball right here, when you put it on a couple things, I think one, 29:22 the plant has to be willing to accept it. Yes sir. It's gotta be in the stage to accept it. Alright, that started 29:28 before you made the application that started in the ground. All of us that are growing 29:36 and trying to grow these high bushel yields and stuff, all of y'all, you're not growing that corn behind you in a test tube. 29:43 Now let me rephrase that, y'all's ground and a lot of progressive growers, your ground is a, like a test tube because you've micromanaged 29:51 everything in it. I think one of the biggest discouraging factors to try to send it or take it to the next level is if you're new 30:00 to it and you're trying something, something needs to click with your senses that makes you think you've done 30:06 something good for that product. So I think a really good explanation, or kind of a roundabout number from y'all about 30:14 once you started this process of going for a hundred plus bushel soybeans, the 400 bushel corn, what was the timeframe? 30:24 It wasn't overnight. There's no silver bullets. So for someone who's really wanting to get started in this and avoid that discouraging phase of, 30:31 I'm not seeing a result, was it one year? Was it two years? Was it three years to develop the soil profile? 30:37 Because that crop is a living organism in my mind. I want a honey bun some morning, some mornings I want a bacon and egg. 30:44 If I'm up at temples, he's gonna feed me scrapple. Okay? So it wants something at different times. 30:50 So over y the years that y'all done this, what's a good, if I can say this, an average number of years 30:57 or whatever that it takes to develop a soil profile to where products like this really will shine. I, I think at, at this point, Stuart, we're getting 31:07 to a point where, you know, we keep talking about balancing our soil and all that stuff, and I'm not worried about balancing my soul as much 31:15 as I am about balancing the nutrition in the plant anymore. So to get my soul to where it is on an average, 31:22 like I've been trying to make a a, a really a good difference for 10 years and I, it's been a systematic approach and it's been slow 31:31 and I don't know if I'll have it done by the time that I'm dead. Probably not. But I do know that it's been millions of years 31:38 that our soul is what it is like in your area, in my area. And I don't know that if in our lifetime, 31:45 if we can change it that much. And I think products like this, we're starting to realize that we can make a difference in the plant and uptake things 31:53 and we've learned how to break things down, which we've never learned before. Stuart, you did a, you did a a video with me 32:00 and Chad when you were up hunting last time and that video basically was talking about breaking down stove. 32:06 And we never did that 10 years ago. We never, and I've been putting cover crops in for 25, 30 years 32:15 and I've never seen a huge difference in my CECs or my organic matter changing. But since we've been doing stuff that 32:22 where we're using stuff like, you know, a ic uh, sugar or a fall, um, mixed with like a UAN make a application across the top 32:30 of our stove, we're growing 300 bushel corn in irrigated situations. You need to break that stove down. 32:36 There's a lot of nutrition in there and we've made big, big gains in the last five years. So that's what I'm gonna go back to. 32:44 And I'm gonna say five, we've made big gains and making a change in our School. All right, we got a five 32:50 years, we got a question over here. This is Kane from sca. Well, who the hell raised her hand guy behind you? 32:57 I'm sorry, mic Michael Young, uh, from Clinton, South Carolina. I got Michael, what you got? 33:02 How you doing? I handed the microphone to Stuart and he took seven minutes last time. I can't let you have it. Okay. 33:09 What I'm wondering is, is what I found is, is that the harder I try, the more I throw things outta whack, you know, where you, you're trying to do so much 33:17 that you end up get other things out in an imbalance. So how much opportunity do y'all welcome agronomist to help you with that? 33:24 Because, you know, a lot of us aren't smart enough to figure that stuff out. So we think more is better 33:30 and we end up creating an issue on the back. I love this point because first off, it speaks to your thing about balance 33:37 and it speaks to his thing about, of course he's pushed it too far and screwed things up because he's a send it guy. 33:43 So I love this because I've heard this discussion before, and by the way, they're gonna be the experts, 33:49 but they've all done it. So you're not alone in this. They've thrown too many things in the stew. Is that what you're talking about? Yeah, go. 33:57 I think it's hard to, you know, you kind of have to view yourself as a scientist instead of a farmer. And you, an experiment is one thing. 34:04 If you put five things out there and it doesn't work, how do you know what caused the problem and how? 34:09 Or if you put five things out there and you have a big response, how do you know really what worked? 34:13 So you need to start slow. It goes back to Stuart's question about how many years does it take? 34:17 We st I've started. And then you'll, you'll check a box and you'll learn something, you'll become confident in it, and then it goes on and you add 34:24 the next thing and the next thing. Don't add too many things at one time. Add one, one thing 34:28 and then add the next, add a PGR, add a late bio K, pass to the PGR the next year 34:34 and learn, learn what works on your farm. Okay? Um, I don't wanna, I wanna make sure you all have time 34:39 because some of the best interaction we see with extreme ag is when we're all done, you can grab you a drink and you can talk 34:45 to the guys about your unique situation that happens on your farming situation. So I think we should probably do now is we ask the question 34:51 and we've tried to answer the question, does late season fertility work? And so I think I want to kind 34:56 of do a wrap like your thought on it and if there's any feed off on that. So who wants to take this topic? 35:01 Chad's always our guy and, and temple's our guy about going late season. You let off your thoughts on late season fertility, how 35:08 to get it right, what you've gotten wrong, um, things you've, uh, you know, things where it's like a little tweak you've made go, 35:15 Uh, it for me, I think that there's certain products that are gonna work all the time in that late season, uh, application. 35:25 This Moneyball, you know, for instance, the micronutrient pack, it seems like it's always going to work. 35:32 Majority of the time phosphorus in this situation drives a lot of energy, helps pull those micros in a PGR in 35:39 that blend kind of to kick it in the butt. But when you kick something in the butt with a PGR, you gotta have some nutrients that go in there. 35:45 And the biggest thing that we never really talked about a lot today is bio. Okay? It's a but that am I gonna say potassium? 35:51 I state, okay, I just said it. Um, so that adds a lot of weight and weight makes bushels and that's what we sell as pounds. 36:01 That is the biggest thing that we never touched on. We touched on everything else, but that load 36:06 of potassium acetate made a lot of bushels for me. And that's not a very expensive product. You know, if your base saturations are really low in your 36:14 ground, potassium acetate makes a big difference. If your base saturations are high like it is in my ground, it still makes a big difference. 36:24 All right? I wanna answer Stewart's question and I'm going, I, and he's going to know it's probably more than this, but I would say five 36:30 years to start with. I'd say 10 years is better, but it's under a management plan, you know, that he knows we can grow so much corn in five years, 36:38 you know, and in the 10 year deal, like it's just building, it's just stirring the pot. 36:42 It's like a, a composter, you know? Okay, on the next question over here, we was talking about, you know, how much it's too much. 36:48 I got in that deal for a few years, you know, and I put a bunch on and what I would get doing was chasing the tissue sample, 36:54 you know, and that's when I was tissue sampling every Monday, you know, and we've sending it in there and I was getting 'em $20 just 36:59 to have a bad day and send it back. You know, it's hand me 20 next time. I'll tell you what I think. So, 37:03 but what I'm getting at is, is get you a good program, 'em NPK macros and just start spoon food and feeding it. 37:14 The best corn you're gonna make is the balanced sample and whether sample is plant, but the, whether sap, it'll be a balanced, 37:23 all the numbers will be over. You won't chase in this week and say, oh shoot my borons down. 37:26 I'm gonna run it there and chase boron next week, then I'm gonna run out there and chase k next week. Get you a good program and stay with it. 37:32 When I say that, I mean just a balanced diet, you know? 'cause we know we can put, I can put enough in on 'em to stop the plant. 37:37 I can literally do that. I've done it, you know, I can put enough b on to stop. So just a balanced diet is what I'm trying to get at. 37:44 By the way, they've all done it. I've heard the discussions on this. What's your recommendation to our friend Michael? 37:50 Where to start? Where, where's the first thing? If he wants to push the envelope a little more than he has, but maybe not as much as you, Chad? 37:58 Uh, what, what, what one thing should he do? Bio. Okay. Bio. Okay. Bio. Okay. Bio at fungicide time, 38:07 that would be the first thing I would do. Bio K is their product at fun, at time of fungicide. You agree with that? All right, 38:14 go ahead and hop in there, Tommy. And we're not just selling product, but why, why, why should that be his first move? 38:19 So one, one, couple things. Now remember, don't be afraid to screw up because even if you screw up at the end next year, 38:29 remember we're feeding the plant, take care of the plant. So if, if you screw up the soil 38:34 by applying too much one year, don't panic, but stick with the program. Don't, don't veer. 38:41 Kinda like Chad was saying, stick with the program, get a balanced, balanced program and, and start there. Now Kelly applies 38:53 bio bio kk fuel late in the season. So what is the first primary nutrient that somebody's gonna drop out in a year like this? 39:05 It's gonna be potassium. That's the last one that you would want to drop out because it, it basically moves everything else 39:12 around in the plant. At some point in time, we're gonna run into moisture, stress, temperature, stress or something during the season. 39:23 And what is the single nutrient that helps alleviate all that stress? Potassium. So please do not 39:33 drop that one out. Okay, Go ahead. You know, to summarize a little bit of Stewart's question and your question, you know, we've been working on it 39:41 for a long time, but try one thing and then add the next thing. And the, uh, an average grower, the, the, 39:50 the, you know, we've been working on this stuff for a long time and when we add one thing to try to make a, to try to make a big change, 39:55 it just doesn't exist anymore for us. But if you're just starting on this high yield path and things like that, trying potassium acetate, 40:03 okay, fuel bio, okay? All of those products, you're gonna have some low hanging fruit and it's gonna be easy at first. 40:09 So don't get discouraged. You know, try one thing and then build upon that in, in years past. 40:14 And, and it, it doesn't take long to, to go up there, but it, there's some really low hanging fruit at the beginning. 40:19 It's, it's really a, a nice surprise to see, Don't drop k out, but don't, it doesn't take a lot of micros 40:27 to make a big difference, especially late. So resist the temptation. Resist the temptation to, to skip the final treatment. 40:35 And that was the question that we posed today. Does late season fertility work? What you're hearing here is expertise from people 40:41 that have pushed the envelope too far, almost killed a plant, spent too much money that didn't give him a payback, 40:46 put too much money out early season that doesn't do anything for you. And also experimenting with new products. 40:52 Please don't go into your love tri over manganese and magnesium, please. All right, we've had enough. His name is Temple Rhodes. 40:58 He's one of extreme ag guys. His name is Chad Henderson. He's one of the extreme ag guys. 41:01 He is Kelly Garrett, one of extreme Ag guys and of course our friend Tommy Roach, the host. I'm Damien Mason. Thank you so much for being here. 41:07 Check out all of our stuff at Extreme Ag Farm.