00:00 SAP sampling versus tissue sampling. What's the difference? Which one's better? How are they performed? And 00:05 what results can you expect from each? That's what we're digging into in this episode of Extreme Ag Cutting the Curve. Welcome 00:10 To Extreme Ag Cutting the Curve podcast, where real farmers share real insights and real results to help you improve your farming operation. 00:20 This episode is brought to you by Simon Innovation, protect your crops and maximize yield with a full lineup 00:25 of innovative precision tools engineered to enhance the efficiency and accuracy of your sprayer. Visit simon innovations.com 00:33 and start getting more ROI out of your sprayer. And now here's your host, Damien Mason. Hey there. Welcome to another fantastic example 00:42 of brilliance coming to you with my guests. I've got Clint Freeze and I've got Mike Evans. They're both in the ag business, agronomically, uh, attuned. 00:50 And um, I'm gonna let, uh, Clint actually remind me the name of his company. It's bio something. 00:53 But anyway, the point is we're gonna talk about SAP sampling versus tissue sampling. 00:57 Um, SAP sampling's a little newer on the scene. Tissue sampling, frankly, was new to me when I joined with extreme ag. 01:02 Well, we had a request from Paul Byer, he's one of extreme ag members. He's actually been a client of 01:06 mine, and I'm like, you know what? That's a great suggestion. We should dig into this topic. So anyway, Clint, help me out here. 01:10 We know Mike Evans works for Integrated Ag Solutions and also, uh, agronomist for Kelly Garrett. Garrett Land and Cattle. You're in Illinois 01:17 and your company has bio something and you're in to help me out. Uh, our company's bio ag management I farm 01:23 as well with my dad and brother. So we've been doing tissue for a, for a long time and they've been doing SAP the last two years. 01:30 Okay. Mr. Evans told me that this is the third year at, uh, Garrett Land and Cattle. They're doing tissue sampling, so, or SAP sampling. 01:37 Alright, so the question was what tissue sampling's been something we've been doing for what, a decade? 01:44 Yeah, yeah. 10, 15 years probably. Okay. So the knock on tissue sampling, Chad Henderson does a big thing on this. 01:50 He says he shouldn't tissue sample, he says he should tissue sample. We did a big episode about this a year 01:54 or so ago down to this farm, and it was a lot of fun. Um, problem with tissue sampling is you're not really supposed 02:00 to be making adjustments tomorrow based on what the tissue sample that you pulled last week. And since the lab says, 02:06 because you might be behind it, that's one of the knocks on tissue sampling. One of the other knocks on. It's more of a, it's more 02:11 of a long term, um, plan. You're looking at it and saying, okay, this field over the last, last years has taught us this. 02:18 So you tell me your thoughts, Clint, on tissue sampling, and I wanna get it from Evans. 02:22 And then I'm say what the next evolution is. And I think you're gonna tell me SAP sampling. Yeah. I mean, tissue sampling is a, 02:29 or you know, tissue sampling is a look at the past. So it's what's stored in the actual leaf. It's actually the process that the leaf's actually dried. 02:37 You put it in cardboard bags when you ship it. Um, they're a little easier to take than sap. They're, they require a little less work, 02:44 but they're look at the past. So I always use tissue as a, okay. You know, one of the big takeaways I had 02:50 with tissue was we are not delivering, like in our area, we have a high clay soil. 02:54 We wasn't delivering K to the plant and tissue picked that up. And so we made some adjustments with KK rates 03:00 and going to some in-season K management. And, and it was a, a big deal for us. So definitely has its place, 03:07 but I think it's more how do we prepare or get better at the following year than maybe calibrating in-season. 03:13 The people that are joining us from like, uh, the panhandle of Oklahoma where our friend, uh, Galen works and lives, um, are saying, 03:21 did this guy just b***h about his soils and he's in Illinois? I mean, let's face it here, Clint, 03:26 you just complained about your soils and you're in Illinois. I mean, there's people that would, uh, 03:30 that would kill for what you have. Alright, so the point is, what I just heard there, and Evans, you can help me out, he said, all right, I dig, 03:38 I I I do the tissue sampling. But I do realize, um, it's, it's what, it's what the plan looked like a week, 10 days ago. 03:44 It's not like I'm gonna make a fertility application now based on that, but it's more 03:48 of it's gonna help me with my long-term plan. Is that what I understood? Yeah, that's, that's what tissue is. 03:54 It's a historical look at, uh, your crop and, you know, we've, we've managed it that way. Um, you know, with Kelly 04:04 and tissue sampling at his farm, that was, you know, we always looked at it that way. Looked at trends going to the next season 04:12 and made adjustments going into the next season. But you know what, what we've learned is agriculture and agronomy moves a lot faster than trying to be two, 04:23 three weeks behind or even a year behind. All right. Do you still tissue sample or have you made the move to SAP sampling? 04:30 Is there still a place for both? I guess what I'm asking Mr. Evans? Y Yeah. Um, we'll, we'll test you every once in a while, 04:36 especially early on just to see what the stored nutrients are. You know, get a glimpse shot of that. 04:41 'cause you still kind of want to keep an eye on that. Uh, where SAP's more of the mobility in the plant, um, you tissues to give you stored nutrients. 04:50 So you still want to keep, keep an eye on that, make sure everything's up to par, but, uh, we just don't do as regularly as we, as we used to. 04:58 What, same thing. Yeah. Yeah. We pretty much completely moved to sap. Um, do a little, like Mike said, just do a little bit just 05:06 to make sure, especially early on, just to make sure that we was calibrating well and there's, there's some crossover there, 05:12 but it's, it is a different story with SAP for sure. Alright, so it's a tissue sample. You go out, you pull the leaves mostly This is done on corn. 05:19 Do you do this on soybeans? Yep. Yes. Yep. Okay. Remember, hey, the listener can't hear you nodding your head, Clint. 05:26 Yes, we do. We do do that. We do it On wheat. Oh, it's every, you can, you can tissue sample everything, right? 05:32 Yeah. And then the, the value there is, like I said, on a trend line, you're saying, okay, over the last three years we've discovered 05:38 that in this field we, you know, we, or, or, or across our whole cropping system, uh, around July 15th this happens. 05:45 And, and you can kind of have that historical thing. So it's a, it's, it's kind of like going to the doctor with regular checkups, but you don't make big adjustments. 05:53 Um, you pull the leaves, you put it in a cardboard sack or a bag and you send it to a lab. That's how you tissue sample, right? 06:00 Yep, yep. All right. How do I, how do I sap sample? Well, it's, there's a different protocol. Um, you actually take two sets of samples. 06:11 So you get a new leaf and an old leaf. So you take the most viable old leaf. Usually it's two to three leaves above the bottom, bottom 06:19 of the, of the plant. Um, and then the newest, most fully photosynthetic, uh, leaf at the top. 06:27 So that's usually about two leaves down from the last or the newest emerging collar. And you send those in 06:33 and you actually only take out, you know, the middle six inches of that leaf, but you have to put it in a Ziploc bag 06:40 and you gotta keep it cool because that sap is sensitive to different environments, different temperatures. 06:45 So you keep it cool and then you overnight it, which is different than tissue, um, in a cooler pack to the lab, and then they get it. 06:52 So the advantage here is, um, well first off, you just described, you said middle six inches, the soybean leaf wouldn't be the case. 06:58 So same, same sort of protocol. If I'm doing another crop other than corn, meaning I take, uh, a leaf that's a couple up from the, the bottom 07:07 and then the most viable, the newest leaf and same thing. Yeah. Beans. You'll take the tfoa 07:12 and the petal, the whole, they want the whole piece. Hey, one of us at this table is not a botanist a try. What was it? T try what? A trifecta and a what? 07:22 Tate. Okay. What's that mean? That's the three leaves that come out on a bean plant, right? 07:27 Okay. The legume or Whatever. The top. The top. Okay, so the trifoliate, and then you take the what the other one, 07:33 The stem of the leaf. The petal. Okay. You know what, Clint Evans kinda likes it when he outsmarts me once in a while. 07:41 Um, he kind of, he, That's not, not that hard. Damien, I, I got that. I got that. He can't say the word molybdenum. 07:47 Um, that's like the only thing I got on him. He can't say that. Alright, so you send this in and, uh, I'm, I'm guessing what I'm hearing, Clint, 07:54 the one advantage is it's more real time. I mean, I pulled it and I pulled it and it's at the lab tomorrow. 08:01 Yep. We get it usually. I mean, uh, NewAge lab does an awesome job. Usually two days from when we send it, 08:06 I got results back sometimes three. So that's, that's awesome. And I think it's a snapshot of, you know, 10 08:13 to 14 days ahead. You've got that much time to decide, Hey, do I have it in my budget or do I want to go 08:19 after a specific problem that sap points to? So you've got a little bit of time to make an end season diagnosis. 08:26 And I, I think the powerful part, like Mike said about pulling an old leaf and a new leaf on all our mobile nutrients, so chloride, 08:34 sulfur, phosphorus, potassium mag and nitrogen, we all know when we go out in the field and we see the plant cannibalizing itself. 08:42 So the leaves are being, uh, taken and used to support upper growth or to support the year we see 08:48 that way before it ever happens. So it gives us a different, you know, idea on, for me, what am I gonna do with base rates If I'm putting 200 pounds 08:57 of DAP out in the fall, but by V eight I'm already phosphorus deficient and I'm already mobilizing from the top to the bottom, 09:03 how am I gonna make a change to better my ROI or better my phosphorus usage as an example? Alright, Mr. Evans, you're nodding your head, uh, 09:12 you're agreeing with all of that. Yeah, I mean that, that two week lead time is, is exactly what I see and what Clint's saying. 09:21 I mean, you can then you can kind of plan out like, all right, we're gonna be phosphorous sufficient, uh, in two weeks and we need to get on top of it. 09:30 And if the micronutrients are out out of balance, we can, we got two weeks to get in there and, and get, 09:35 and get some kind of corrective application made. Okay. So from the standpoint of timing, I wanna talk about the timing of it 09:41 because it seems like, um, it's, it's, it's a big improvement on the timing and I want to get into that. 09:46 Before I do, I want to also remind our listeners about our friends. At Nature's Nature's is one of our friends 09:50 and business partners here at, at, at Extreme Ag. They are focused at nature's on providing sustainable farming solutions to help you maintain your crop's 09:57 potential today. And also to pass on that farm to the next generation. At Nature's, they have high quality liquid fertilizers 10:04 powered by Nature's Bio Kay, to target specific periods of influence throughout the growing season. You hear our guys talk a lot about spoon feeding versus 10:10 flinging, you know, uh, uh, uh, uh, flinging the stuff out there in the fall or in the spring. It's all about spoon feeding. It's about targeting periods 10:16 of influence during your growing season so that you can help your plants mitigate plant stress and enhance your crop yield. 10:22 Most importantly, boost your farms ROI nature's in A-C-H-U-R-S natures.com. It is not just the timeliness 10:30 because the point is the sample gets there faster. Well, you could overnight a tissue sample also. It's the difference what I'm hearing is the SAP is live, 10:40 the tissue, um, the SAP tells you what's actually going through the xylem and the flow. See that Clint, I just used words that are sort of botanical 10:49 'cause I wanted to make, I wanna make sure that Evans knew I did take plant biology. Um, the, the SAP tells us what is actually going on in 10:57 that plant right now versus the tissue is laid down a week or two prior. Is that kind of what I'm thinking? 11:02 And here, am I getting this right on the timeliness? Absolutely, yeah. It's, it's a snapshot of what's actually flowing. 11:10 And then when we see, the reason we pulled the old is just to see on the mobile nutrients what's being pulled out 11:16 to support new growth. So that's been huge in our mind. And then I think the other big pull ahead, uh, with SAP is it sets a very high ceiling for yield. 11:26 And I, I don't necessarily know what that ceiling is, but I think one thing me and Mike's been, uh, frustrated 11:32 with is we wanna have a good looking SAP sample. And sometimes when we get halfway through the growing season or into reproduction, it's tough 11:39 to have a good looking SAP sample. So for, for instance, like, uh, most of my growers in my area, 11:44 or most of the farmers I work with, you know, they're 50% deficient in FOSS at R one at tassel. So a lot of that corn last year was 250 11:54 to 60 bushel corn at a, you know, 50% deficiency level between old and new growth. So it's not about, for me, it's not about how do we get to 12:04 0% deficiency between old new, it's, can I get to 40% deficient at R one next year? And it's about 12:11 that time value extending the increased nutritional flow later into the growing season 12:16 and keeping that premature cannibalization from happening. Got it. So the, the issue is 12:25 you think that even though, okay, most people don't even tissue sample, and now you're saying the next evolution is, 12:30 so like the person that doesn't do any of this, should they just skip tissue sampling Evans and go straight to sap? 12:37 Well, that's a good question. I, I, I think so. I think it's, you're gonna learn more quicker and if you're trying to just make adjustments in a short 12:45 amount of time, sap, SAP will give you that insight and you can start making adjustments fairly soon. All right. Clint, same similar question. 12:52 Is tissue sampling? Wait, okay. Uh, no, no. Sampling is the rotary dial phone. You don't even know what that is 'cause you're too young. 13:00 Um, tissue sampling is the flip phone and SAP sampling is the latest iPhone 15. Yes. 13:08 Yeah, I think, I think it's a good place just to, to skip right to it because I think there's a lot more, there's a lot more information on a SAP 13:15 report than a tissue report. Do I get the, do I get the same investment, same cost? No, no. SAP's more expensive because 13:25 It's more thorough. Yep, yep. Do I need to pull as many SAP samples? Um, I think when you start out, it's probably good 13:35 to start doing a real regimented schedule. Um, whether that's every week or every two weeks. Um, I think Clint 13:42 and I have talked about, you know, as you get down the pipeline, can you just do it when you, when you want to go make an application? 13:47 I think, I think that's in the cards. Once you understand your, your specific, your specific farming operation and what it's telling you. 13:54 Um, but out the gate, I think you kind of want to get a, a, a good idea of what's going on. 14:01 What about, uh, so tissue sample, SAP samples per field. I got an 80 acre field of corn out here. 14:07 Am I grabbing it from one place or do I have to grab it from 12 places? Do I mix 'em all together? Talk about Clint. 14:12 The actual process. Yeah. So like on most of the farmers I work with and on our own farm, we, we limit it because it's expensive. 14:21 I think the value is, like Mike said, pulling it every week, every other week. So I'm gonna pull, 14:26 say my manure ground versus my conventional fertilizer ground. I'm gonna pull my no-till acres versus maybe acres I'm 14:34 still doing tillage on. I'm gonna, you know, pull the, the poor area versus the really good area or my average area And then you mix 'em. 14:41 Yeah, no, I, I'm keeping those all separate by, by that, by that, you know, location. 14:47 But then I can get an idea of what extra value the manure ground holds versus a conventional fertilizer with dap and potash 14:54 and NH three, you know. So for me it's about looking at the different management strategies maybe you have within your farm 15:00 or the different yield ranges within your farm. If you got ground that only puts out 130 40 bushel corn and you got ground putting out to 50, 15:08 it's probably different challenges within the two different limiting factors. So we're putting this like, 15:16 we're sitting a refrigerated cooler for God's sakes. Evans, you guys farm 7,500 acres plus if you do this for any of your, uh, integrated ag solutions clientele, 15:25 you're sending essentially a, a a cooler every, every week. And then you gotta try and put on the Ziploc, 15:32 the Meyer farm, the, the Smith farm. I mean, is that what we're doing? Yeah, you know, we've, we've uh, you know, 15:41 the new age labs, the, the lab we work with, they do a really good job of giving you kind of what you need to do to perform a good sample. 15:48 So, you know, we've set up, you know, boxes with insulation, get those one time use gel packs, you throw that in there, 15:56 you know, zip locks, you just, you know, name 'em out before you head out and, and it, after a couple times, it, 16:02 it really isn't too terrible at all. You kind of get used to it and, and, uh, get it rolling Number of times you'd perform a SAP sample per season. 16:14 Clint, You know, I, I think for most farmers, um, you know, we're where Mike and I are trying to do a lot of changing 16:22 and work with different products. We're pulling a lot before and after applications. I think that that is a variable thing for farmers, you know, 16:30 uh, using SAP to help validate products. I mean, we can see when we apply product X, whether, you know, in a foliar pass 16:40 how much bump we get out of the sap. So I think that's valuable. Um, pulling before and 16:45 after an application just to, to vet out the product more than just yield. But for us, I mean, I think most, most farmers, 16:52 if you pulled, uh, six times a year on corn six times a year on beans, you're gonna get a, a decent trend from start to finish of 16:59 what your dysfunctions are at different growth stages Six times Evans. Yeah. And I don't, I don't think that's any different than 17:08 what a, a person pulling tissue would, um, on any other, some of the other programs, they're either biweekly 17:14 or weekly if you, you know, we've done that before, um, in the past. So I, I think, I don't think the amount 17:20 of times really changes is a whole lot. Um, well, You're pulling more samples than you actually can do Treatments. 17:26 You guys don't treat, you don't treat fertility six times if it's fertility that we're looking for. 17:32 We're not, we're not, we're not treating it, we're not treating it with each, we're not sampling it with each treatment because 17:38 we're not six fertility treatments. Am I wrong? No, you're not wrong. Um, but we'll make a couple apps out there 17:44 and it's good to kind of make sure that you're set, it gives you more data points to look at when you do that, other than just pulling two SAPs and then applying. 17:54 'cause you wanna make sure it's, it's trending the right way. I mean, weather environment does affect the SAPs, you know, 18:00 maybe it would be too cloud. I did pulled one a couple weeks ago. It was too cloudy and windy, 18:04 and I did it for on purpose just to see what the SAP would tell me. And it, everything was low. But it was, 18:08 In other words, to see if, if, okay, you had pulled a SAP sample, you made a treatment based on what the SAP told you, you did a prescription 18:15 and then a week later pulled the SAP after the treatment to see if the treatment had taken. Yep. Okay. So essentially you think 18:26 when you say six times is the right number, Clint, you're saying really the one that is, that tells you what predicts, tells you where things are, 18:35 and then you can do a prescription. And then the second one is to see if it works. Correct. Like, well, for instance, if I, you know, 18:41 I'm working with a farmer that's doing an in furrow system, we may pull his in furrow treatment versus 18:47 where he didn't apply or left a check, um, to see like early on at V three, Hey, what, what did we actually move here? 18:54 If we're using, whether it's a biological program, a fertility program, is this getting into the plant? Is it the right form? So, you know, 19:01 I I also think there's power in, in, you know, when you pull more samples per, per field per year, but pull less fields, we can build a trend 19:10 and then, you know, Evans or or I or other, other people in the industry can sit down with you and say, all right, here's a real issue 19:16 that just stays from start to finish. Or this issue only starts at R one and what can we do at R one next year to, 19:24 to mitigate that risk. So that's, that's why I'm a believer in pulling a few more. It's not that we're gonna go out 19:29 and make applications every time. Nobody, nobody could afford that. So How much am I spending to do this? 19:38 Um, doing a new and an old sample is a hundred, like a hundred bucks per sample set. So you get one, one location new, 19:49 and an old leaf is a hundred bucks. One location, meaning one farm. Yeah, one, you went to the home farm 19:56 and pulled one set of samples. That'd be one, one sample, a hundred bucks, A hundred bucks. And 20:01 that's two tests. So that's, I'm spending, am I spending $300 then per farm? At six? At six samples? 20:09 600 per farm? Yep. Oh, I thought you said new and old. So I thought, I thought I thought $100. Got you. Before and after. Okay. You're saying it's it? Yeah. Okay. 20:18 So that's a 300 or 601 Farm. One sample is a hundred bucks. That gets you a new and old sample. 20:27 Okay. So my, my point is, you're on one farm in the course of a year, you spend How many samples you pull on that farm. 20:36 So if you pull six times, that's 600 bucks. So can, can the person listen to this? That's gonna being a little bit skeptical, make a point here 20:44 and say, good god, I don't know, I think I could lose a little bit of yield versus 600 bucks. It does seem a little, it's, it's, it is pricey. 20:52 It is, it is. I mean, it, it is. But I think, um, well, I don't think, I mean, it, it, fertility is expensive. 20:59 All the things coming to the marketplace and getting thrown at farmers is, uh, you know, I think this is a way to validate, uh, 21:07 company X says they can do this to your plant. Well can they, you know? So it's a validation tool for me, I think. 21:13 I think that's how you get your ROI and also I think moving your fertility budget around, that's what I've been most eye opened about, 21:20 moving some things around. And, and I, I think it, it fits in, So on a per acre basis, the point is it ends up being, 21:27 call it five, six bucks an acre on the sampling. And you're, you're saying, I can, I can use that $5 to better apply fertility and make that five bucks 21:35 or six bucks or eight bucks an acre, 10 bucks an acre, whatever that is, right? Yep, yep, yep. 21:39 And ca case in point, I mean, know, like, uh, it was always big on putting manganese on, especially after, uh, roundup different applications. 21:49 'cause it was tying up, what we found with SAP was we don't, we don't really have a manganese problem that, you know, 21:55 so I, for me, it that just for, you know, a lot of farmers I work with that was just gone. We don't have that problem in our area. So 22:01 Same Evans, I'm guessing you've got the same thing where at first you and Kelly always sit down and talk about the money. 22:07 You, you more the fertility, hear more about the money, and then you said, I think we should do this. And then after the first year of doing it, 22:13 did you look at the numbers and say, oh my God, we were blowing money on, unnecessarily on whatever, manganese, magnesium, sink, whatever was, was there one 22:21 or two things that you found you had unnecessarily been applying? Yeah, I mean, we always chased phosphorus, uh, 22:31 or not chased phosphorus. We never chased phosphorus. You know, Kelly tissue always told us we were high. And going back to what Clint said, 22:37 we never really worried about it. You know, we went after different nutrients. Now you get SAP back and you're, 22:42 you're looking at your phosphorus being deficient and you're like, oh boy. And, but it never shows up in the tissue, at least 22:47 for us, in, in Kelly's area. So it's really, really focused us back into a, a different, uh, program. 22:55 Got it. So the point is, your your SAP investment, you've, you've been able to move the money from unnecessarily 23:03 applying things to the sampling and your head. Yeah. We'll go after phosphorus a little bit more, more heavily than we would in our nitrogen passes now. 23:12 Yeah. Uh, get me outta here. Last thoughts on sap versus tissue. So the point is, is tissue dead? 23:17 Are you done tissue sampling, Clint freeze You? From my business standpoint, no. But on my farm, yes. You know, from a, from 23:26 a business standpoint, but I think that, I Mean, if someone hires you, you'll do it. But on your own acres, you're saying, uh, 23:32 the train's moved on, it's now, it's now it's the next thing. Yeah. Yeah, I think so. 23:38 Do you have customers that want that? Uh, you try and talk out of tissue sampling and move on to this app and they're just not ready? 23:43 Is a reluctance? Is that the problem? Not really. I, I tell you that's been the most powerful is I work with the farmer 23:49 and I, I make a recommendation to, to apply this program or this product with the herbicide passer 23:54 or whatever pass it is, and we come back and retest with SAP and they see what we did to the nutrient levels. 24:01 That has been a powerful tool for farmers to actually validate it out. And it's, I think, you know, we're at farmers, 24:09 we get thrown these, me and Mike was talking about this the other day. A lot of, uh, MPK micronutrient, uh, 24:15 foliar options are 60 bucks a gallon. You apply a pint, it's supposed to take care of everything. Well, what we kind of found out is 24:21 that those don't register at a pint, a pint per acre. If you think about it. We're, we're now moving on to how can we go after nitrogen 24:29 or phosphorus in a big way, spend, spend the same money at the end of the day, but actually target what our problem is. 24:37 You're nodding your head, Evan. So the, um, the, the point is this has given you a much clearer picture. 24:44 Uh, you know, uh, not farming, not farm, not we're, we're farming, we're farming more advanced now because of tissue sample. 24:50 Uh, 'cause SAP sampling. Yeah, I mean, to Clint's point, you he's, you know, the old products we used to use and felt pretty good about, 24:59 and you watch 'em in the sap and it's like, we don't have a near enough of a, like take copper for instance, or, or, uh, a zinc 25:06 and you're just like, oh my, I'm not getting enough in it anyways. So it really makes you rethink of what, um, 25:13 you're recommending or what you need to go after From a cost standpoint. I'm sure that's still one of the, the, the challenges, 25:20 especially when you got a little bit of a down revenue year. So when you, uh, if you were working with a customer 25:26 or if you were being a hired consultant, whatever, um, how much am I spending on tissue sampling? You said it was 600 bucks. 25:32 Um, for instance, with the sap, is, is tissue half of that? Yeah, I'd say half or a third. 25:40 I would say, you know, they do the same samples in, in tissues, probably a okay third, you know, a couple hundred bucks a field to, 25:47 to take you six samples through the season. Um, but I think it's the value, like my, you know, the being able to measure what we're doing 25:54 and weed things out products and, and bring in new things. I mean, I, we've completely changed what, what we use far 26:01 as, uh, recommendations to the grower. Got it. All right. Last thing I need to know. Mike Evans, you're in your third year of doing it. 26:08 What have you learned in those third years? So the person that says, all right, I'm gonna try this. I, I I believe these guys, I think this is smart. 26:14 What do I, what have you learned in three years that the person that's gonna try it for the first time is gonna need to know right now? 26:21 Um, I think you need to have an open mind, um, and, and really put effort into doing it through the season. It's a, it's a little overwhelming. 26:31 I'm sure clin will agree. When you first go down this path, there's a lot of information getting thrown at you, a lot 26:36 of data coming at you, and you're get overwhelmed pretty easy, but just stay the course. 26:41 And once you get through about a handful of samples and maybe through the season, you'll, it'll, it'll definitely work, come out clear at the end 26:50 and you can start really pinpointing things you need to work on. Yeah, I, I'm thinking that maybe the person needs to start 26:56 with four of their fields, not all of their fields or something like that, because it could probably be a little bit, I, I have a feeling that the big problem, 27:03 not the big problem, the big revelation, the big reveal, the big is like you said, Clint, oh my God, 27:09 for years we dad told me we should do this. We came out and did this, and the SAP tells us it was unnecessary. 27:16 I think that's gonna be the big one. Yeah. For most people It is, it is. 27:19 It's maybe re reallocating some dollars and, and better spending and, and not in every geography and environment's different. 27:27 That's one thing I've been kind of eye open as we pull these and in southern Indiana 27:31 and Missouri versus Nebraska versus where Mike's at, we see similarities, but then we also see some, some big differences. 27:39 So that's different. I think we, we get to talking in generalities in ag where everything's the same for everybody 27:45 and it's not, not really the case. Yeah. So on an average then, um, just the last thing I need to know about the sample. 27:52 Am I pulling is like one sample every 40 acres adequate, or is it one sample every 10 acres? 27:59 What's, what do you think you do? And I mean, you got a lot of acres to cover. Yeah, I usually just go on the field 28:05 and try to find either, you know, we pick a, a trouble spot Mm-Hmm. Or we look for the, you know, 28:13 the good spot or an average spot. That's kind of what, you know, that's how we delineate and we just go take one sample, 28:19 or we take two sample sets in two different locations to get some comparisons. Got It. All 28:24 right. Anything else, Clint? Yeah, just to reiterate that, I mean, I think on, I take my, my dad's 28:30 and brother's farm, we're, we're pulling three fields of corn, three fields of beans across our total acres, probably spending a buck 50 average across our entire 28:39 operation from start to finish. So this does not have to be per acre across your tire operation, an expensive thing. 28:46 Got it. That's, that, that puts things in perspective. So, and you, and you can pretty well easily, you can, you can a couple bucks an acre at most. 28:53 You're talking and then, and you can easily make an adjustment that saves you or makes you that, 28:58 Right? Yep. Even, even at $4 Corn Evans. Oh yeah. I think you can get a lot of opportunity to learn and see what, what you don't need too, to spend. Yeah. 29:10 That's what I think the answer is. You know, the person that's saying, well, I'm staring down beans there in the 10 to $11 range, 29:16 corn might be, have a three in front of it. I don't know if I can be justifying it. Maybe that's the best time to justify this, 29:21 because you can definitely make the treatment that you stop, stop over-treating, I guess is the big one there. Yep. 29:31 I think so. I think reallocation or, or even like, you know, cutting back when we can, I think it's, it's looking at it from lots of angles, 29:39 not just, let's spend more money on this entire crop. So Name's Clint Freeze. 29:44 A company's called Bio Ag Management. He's, uh, he's not unlike most Illinois people. They complain about how good they got it over there. 29:50 They complain about their soil, they complain about, I mean, they should complain about 29:53 Chicago probably, but they, they don't complain about. That's just, well, they do that too. Anyway, his name's CT Freeze, 29:58 a company's called Bio Ag Management. He's joined by Mike Evans with Integrated Ag Solutions, uh, and an awesome dude there at Land and Cattle. 30:04 So next time, thanks for being here guys. Thank you. Thank you. We, we'll be covering this some more because, uh, this is kind of a, a topic 30:11 that I think deserves more. We're gonna be doing some more videos on this, so stay tuned. 30:14 But you know what, we covered it for you because I think this is a hot thing and we'll be digging into it more. 30:18 I promise. Tissue sampling, SAP sampling. That's what we talked about here today. My name's Damian Mason. Thanks for joining us. 30:25 I'm extreme ag cutting the curve. That's a wrap for this episode of Cutting the Curve. Make sure to check out Extreme Ag Farm 30:31 for more great content to help you squeeze more profit out of your farming operation. 30:36 Cutting the curve is brought to you by Simon Innovations. Don't let your sprayer's limitations hold you back. 30:42 Visit simon innovations.com and upgrade your sprayer's capabilities now.