00:00 Amen, are you like Vandal kids that went out and just tore up your field? Yeah, I think there was Mason kids. I'm yeah, 00:08 right. You know what? I I I'm surprised that you let that go. I mean I'm surprised you an administer a little country Justice on that. All right. So we're talking about tire pressure better off 00:17 if I don't get them on that. Welcome. To eggs cutting the curved podcast where you get a guaranteed return on investment of your time as we 00:29 cut your learning curve with the information, you can apply to your farming operation immediately extreme egg. 00:35 We've already made the mistakes so you don't have to managing your Farms Water Resources is a critical component to a successful 00:44 and sustainable farming operation Advanced Drainage Systems helps Farmers, just like you increase their yields up to 30% with their technologically advanced 00:54 Water Management products visit ads pipe.com to see how they can keep your business flowing. 01:03 Now, here's your host Damien Mason. Hey friends, welcome to another fantastic episode of Extreme Ice cutting the curve. We've got a good topic for 01:12 you today that I think impacts probably a lot of farm operations. In fact, it's probably a lot of farm operations that are impacted 01:21 by this that actually don't address it or don't know for sure how to address we're talking about soil compaction, you know soil is the most valuable asset 01:30 in your operation. I mean, these land values have gone up like 30% depending on where you are geographically you're over a year Farm grounds worth a lot of money. 01:39 It's the base of your entire operation. You have to have the farm ground plus produce the crops. It's a very important thing and we talked a lot in different 01:48 episodes of cutting the curve as well as through extreme AGS platform about soil Health soil Health. It's become a bigger topic as it should. 01:58 So we drive over a lot with these great big machines, you know combine ways like 20 tons. I got my ground is rented to 02:07 a Dairy operation. They're going out to a silage wagons, you know science semis, they're filled with you know, 80,000 pounds 02:13 of silage. It's a lot of weight. So you got a lot of pressure on that ground. We're competing with large equipment. We also are seeing 02:22 the impact of all this so we're talking about the cost of compaction and how to avoid it. Kevin Matthews. One of the original flowers are extreme. AG 02:31 is here to talk about how he handles and mitigates and/or avoids soil compaction in North 02:37 Carolina at his farming operation Mr. Matthews. Thanks for being here. Yes, sir, Soul compaction. I gave you the intro. Give me your your intro on 02:46 Soul compaction. One of the bit you know, the biggest thing is we need to look at our equipment and the size of 02:53 our operations Damien. It's not been that many years ago. I know I'm getting on the older side now. I'll be 50 this year compared 03:02 to it seems like the other day. I was just starting at 20, but So we've run 40 20s and 03:10 a big tractor was a 46 40 years 60 30 years or something. So we're talking tractor-wise, you know, 24,000 pound tractor weighted up, 03:20 you know, put all that horsepower to the ground. Yeah. So for a 4020 with duels on it and wheel weights and then 600 pounds 03:29 hanging off the front of it to balance. It was a big machine you might be 12,000 pounds. Yeah, and that was that was a big machine 50 years ago when you and I 03:38 were kids or whatnot born now. Now we're talking about these machines that obviously you go to the Far Cry. Yeah, 40 03:48 plus thousand pounds and I mean they do tremendous workloads, but in the implants were pulling them or so much heavier. 03:56 You know for years our silage guys, but you know, they was swimming with self-propelled Choppers, you know, the trucks driving through the fields. The good 04:05 thing was it was a dryer time of the year. So the ground wasn't as wet and you had a little more forgiveness in your 04:11 compaction, but the silence guys is always faulted and and in our area they've done a phenomenal job cover crops. 04:19 And different methods to conservation to help mitigate that compaction and they're staying out of them Fields when they're away when they can so that's a big 04:31 deal. But on the road crops out on the drain Farm inside like we guys are doing We're harvest in that grain with these big 04:39 combines. Well our 7720s that we used to use in 6600 and 4400 something. You know, the whole combine wasn't 04:48 much over 20 25,000 pounds, you know, even with a grain tank full. And lo and behold, you know, we was running 04:57 straight trucks hauling grain away from the field. You know how 300 plus bushels 330 Bush was on 05:03 the truck. Then we went to tanums Holland 500 600 bushels and then now tractor and trailers. Well these combines that we run now these class eights. They're 05:12 400 bushels. I can't even attack a straight truck won't even how being a corner for being a soybeans. I mean just what 05:21 you're thinking about there. And I know we sound a little bit like Old Timers talking history, but we're really getting that is equipment's gotten 05:27 bigger and and it's because first off efficiency and then the faster you can get stuff planted the fashion you can get stuff harvested the 05:36 better especially in your climatological Zone. You always talk about getting stuff harvested before the hurricane season comes because then 05:42 it's a wipe out of your crop. The grain tank in your combine is more than the Parker brand gravity 05:50 wagons that we had on the farm 50 years ago, you know is what a hundred and 125 bushel with the 05:59 sideboards gravity wagon. That's not even one grain tank in your combine. So the weight just in your green in your Hopper. 06:08 0 then 250 Bush was where we were so we absolutely I'm a little younger. Yeah, right. So the point is point is just the grain 06:17 just the grain hopper in your combine alone is what we used to have in a in a wagon and not to mention other way. So equipment's huge in 06:26 ways a lot can't get away from that until eventually we can I'll get to that in a little bit one of the other reasons that we're compat are 06:35 we getting on it? When we shouldn't that's usually one of the biggest sins account the calendar says you 06:41 should be in the field and even though the conditions are terrible these Farm guys say damn it. I got to be out there and they push it is 06:47 that the problem we will see more that on the Harvest side because you got to get that crop out for winter or bad weather saying 06:53 so yeah, you're going You're Gonna push it on that and it's every little thing that contributes to it. The the good things, you know is we've 07:02 got a lot of options with tire sizes that we did not have we got tracks now that we can use but the bad side of 07:11 that tire option is We don't we're so bad not to really focus on the tire pressures that we have on these machines whether it's our planting tractor or 07:22 sprayers or our combines or outer carts that tire pressure is a big deal on mitigating that heavy weight of that machine. So we've 07:31 got to we've got to remember that that's just as important as getting that planner set up do that. Perfect stand in the spring. Yeah. So that's one that 07:40 nobody ever. That's one that nobody ever thinks about basically what you're saying is we can we can take those pounds 07:46 and spread them out a little bit just by back in 20 pounds of pressure off a tire or something like that and then making that tire whiter and thicker, right? Yeah. Well, 07:55 you know a lot of people think why are it's not going to get no wider you want to make the track longer and and that's good that 08:04 you drop that up because a lot of people are worried when they drop that air pressure that it's going to squat that sidewall down 08:10 and cause more stubble damage and it can Stars are built a little better. And I know I was looking at some of the companies that 08:19 we we work with with extreme AG how they're changing the design of that that footprint so that they got a little bit of 08:28 a role on them and it rolls that stubble to the side. So it don't come up and catch that sidewall as bad. They got 08:34 different designs in them now to keep the the mud and and residue from sticking in between the clean. So there may be clean out more 08:44 and after meeting with these people the design I seen it there I thought it was a neat pattern neat Diamond. I really didn't know the purpose of it, but there's a 08:53 lot of purpose there and a lot of these companies now offer and and it is not taking 08:59 advantage of but they will bring scales out and scale your machines and tell you what kind of what air pressure needs to be in each tire. 09:08 That is a big deal that is and most of them don't charge for that if it's their brand higher some of them do but it still well worth it saves on 09:17 fuel saying tremendous savings on compaction because it's all about the pounds per square inch that's what we're looking at. We're really honestly, I 09:26 don't know if anybody and I've you know running helping the neighbors whatever. I don't anybody that actually goes about changing their tire pressure based on the tasks. They're gonna do 09:35 from planting to tillage to harvest. I don't really buy really does that do you think that's something that anybody does? Yes. Yes. 09:41 I think it's getting more widespread and more well known as the words getting out there. But we do it, you know, when we go 09:50 from a plant and tractor to all our heart tractor, we put a 3.8 Channel there's times will change the rear tire pressure as much as 10 12 pounds 10:00 and that's a big deal on the compassionate how I set down how that tire performs and the 10:07 And you can see that I mean our technology so good now, you know these different. Harvest recording sources different software programs. 10:17 It's used on the farms. You can sit there and pick out traffic patterns and especially in the spring when you're planting. I mean 10:26 that applied downforce map it I never forget. I had it some kids wanted to drive through my field and get it wet and mess things up a 10:35 little bit and when we planted that field it showed this the figure eight that they cut out in the field into apply 10:41 it down Force. So it's This is there. It's real right? Okay tire pressures a biggie and I think that that's something 10:51 by nose and you just pointed out that a lot of the tire companies will actually help you on that. By the way in equipment 10:57 out of the point. Where can you inflate while you're just in the machine, you still have to take it up to shop and use the air compressor? 11:03 Most of the US equipment you still have to take to the shop or our service trucks has got air compressors on but a lot of the European stuff. That's a 11:12 big deal. They do over there. They I know fan is working. They've got tractors like that. They're they're momentum planner. It does that when you 11:21 fold it out and going the plant position at deflates the tires and when you fold it up into the road position or highway, I think 11:30 they call it it inflates the tires to do the speed. Right? I think we're gonna see more and more of that as the tire company 11:39 compete with the track companies and the trouble we did run a track machine. It is phenomenal in the field. The only problem we wrote 11:49 so much with our small fields and spread out that it was more rough ride. It just did not it was not 11:58 a pleasant experience for us out on the road in the field. It was great. I never had a Tired I did like that for I didn't know. Yeah, so one throw 12:06 or not. I think the tracks look cool. I think that you could you could get a little of a skid steer effect on the ends if you're jocking around 12:16 and turning and tearing up stuff, but I can do they'd be a problem going down the road. Okay, these are things that cause compaction the 12:22 not having tires, correct the size of the equipment. Let's talk about conditions your theory on avoiding compaction based on conditions. I know 12:32 that there's a thing the farmer mentality is such that the sun's out and the calendar says April is time to go and sometimes I think 12:41 the right thing to do. So what's your tips on avoiding compaction based on conditions? 12:45 Well, you got to do what works for your situation. I can't sit here until the man. You know an area I never farmed Soul 12:55 Tops on every Farm. What's the what he's doing? Right or wrong? He's probably doing a whole lot more right than he is wrong, but it's a little things that's what can make a big difference for 13:04 us in our area. The biggest thing is we want to make sure when it's really wet to try to stay off at land at all possible. I will 13:13 tell you you get crunch time. You may push it a little bit and eventually and it can hurt you. We got some Souls down in Davie County 13:23 the County south of me here that we Farm in you absolutely do not get on that Soul. If it's 13:29 every way it will bite you and it will stay weed to the next year. It's not longer. So you you got to know your souls you got to know which ones are 13:38 forgiving which ones are another thing. Damian is like when we're planting. Let's say you're down to that last past. 13:46 And you got one pass and you're going to be at the other end of the field from where you're gonna exit the field at we will we drive down with the planter 13:55 up and then we plant our way out. We don't never want to plant to the end and then drive back across where we planted. We will 14:04 eliminate that every way possible. Sometimes you get in a situation you got no choice now, so you have what you avoid you avoid driving over anything that's been 14:13 planted. But that's still you've already been over once and so you still do have the issue but going 14:20 back to conditions. Yeah that you know, some sometimes a clock the calendar is up against you and you're like, I don't really want to have to 14:29 go out there and mud this in but I it's usually a bad idea now we can do crop insurance and prevent planning. Isn't it still better for the long-term healthier soil 14:38 to not force it versus fortunate. Well, I'm not I we have golf insurance and necessary evil. My 14:48 goal is to pay premiums and never ever need that crop insurance. Right that's using a crop insurance 14:57 claim is a nightmare to me. So prevent planting you can't in our area not gonna make it on prevent plan. 15:06 It ain't no happen. Now other areas of the US prevent plans more attractive here on the East Coast not it is it's useless part. 15:18 So rather than holding back and saying I'll just take prevent plant. You would say, I'd rather force it into. 15:25 Less than ideal conditions on my soil versus take prevent plant. I would rather wait and go past the 15:33 plant day and take a lower guarantee on my insurance. Okay and plan it right? Yeah, then to take and mud it in 15:42 or say well, we're past cut off date. I'm done. I'm on this type of event plan. We have had to take prevent planting on some wheat acres 15:51 in the past where it on one time in my life or I've seen today. So we're you could not get in the field. And so we 16:00 did. I mean we just said not We're not gonna do it. So Damian. Yeah you 16:05 Every area is different, but we're in a positive basis area on prices. So the crop insurance prices always going to be a loss for US versus what 16:14 our Market is. All right. So conditions you're you can't say anybody do anything wrong, but we both know that it doesn't it doesn't 16:23 just last that one year if you get out there and you mistreat your soil and your your going over a heavy equipment and bad conditions, it sticks around 16:32 for a couple years, right? Yeah, but I mean, yeah it does but what you don't realize Damian is a good conditions, let's say we're harvesting going and follow 16:41 our harvesting soybeans and those grain parts are running. We try to run the same tracks for the drain car. So they'll 16:47 they'll go across and get on one run and run back and forth in that area and some of our small fields and they'll be deal because the field just smile you just you just 16:56 get to combine empty and do the best you can but those areas that we load of trucks in we actually will take a new DMI. No children go 17:05 in and rip that every couple years because it packs around down so bad that you cannot. 17:12 Grow across to a mount anything. It'll be a huge yield like right there and As you say it lasts a long time, right? Hey, we're 17:22 talking about the cost of compaction how to avoid it. All right the cost the cost. Like we 17:28 just said sometimes this the damage the soil last multiple Seasons, but also let's talk about yield reduction. When 17:34 can you tell me in experiences either anecdotally or even that you've punched it and put it in paper to it? 17:42 The cost of of going into ground maybe you took on new fields and you're like, I'm gonna start farming this and the guy 17:51 before me packed the hell out of it getting experience. You got any any numbers any stories about the cost of 18:01 Compacted soils. Well, my next and in our souls it on our Upland it can be a zero. I mean you get where you been 18:10 loading trucks? For those of grind carts. I mean we got a thousand most of car 9800 was the car and you get them carts out there. I'm telling 18:21 you. If it's a little bit damp and even if it's good and dry during Harvest, it packs the full out of them. So we try to immediately get crop growing 18:31 right behind it whether it's barley for cover crop or wheat. And if we can keep something growing on that soles it 18:38 can mitigate a lot of that problem. But then a lot of times we have to put that ripper in there and I spoke about earlier going there and rip that and then we're running a vertical tillage and 18:47 social cover crops only immediately. We don't really background bear. So that's a b that's a beer at Turks. 18:53 That's about soil health and not just comparison. So the way this all started we should tell our listener the way this all started was a text stream between 18:59 you and me and the rest of the extreme AG gang and I talked about excessive tillage damaging soil structure. And 19:08 then of course as you are akin to do you disagree with me, which I actually liked but then you told me that there's a need for tillage. I don't disagree. So 19:17 let's talk about when you have to we all know 900 bushel green cart, even though you get them big floater tires. You can't possibly dissipate that 19:26 much weight. It don't matter how big they don't make a tire big enough to dissipate that amount of pounds, right? I mean, 19:33 Okay, so you got all that weight and then you're especially in one area where your semis are being loaded you're talking 19:39 about. A lot of pounds a lot of pounds a lot of pounds on that one area. So you would always 19:45 go in and rip it in that area or to use sometimes say now it's packed. But if we just get something growing on it, it'll start breaking that up. What's your 19:54 theory on that? We watch it women we watched the ground. There's there's some areas that's 20. I believe you rip every year just stop 20:03 the soul go drop back. That's right play our and then our River bottoms. We got certain areas one Farm in particular 20:12 that we load a tremendous amount of corn and one area and we're going to make it every year. I mean, it's about a two acre area. We'll rip that part of the 20:21 field. Rarely, do we rip the whole entire Fields anywhere? We do have some flood issues 20:28 where the flood lands, you know, when the river gets out that water so heavy it'll pack some of themsoles and we have to run the Ripper through that Kevin wasn't 20:37 a standard practice maybe not everywhere but wasn't it kind of standard practice and a lot of the areas that once the Deep V Ripper or whatever we call them came out what 20:46 we're talking 20 years ago or so, they became the thing that our 30 30 years ago 20:52 that came up wasn't practice where a lot of guys just ripped every acre. They just thought that's the thing to do go out and heave that stuff up wasn't 21:01 that kind of a thing for a while? Yeah, and but you got to remember though. We was on a tail engine environment and we didn't have you know, our herbicide program was 21:10 our iron. So we we had to tell you when you wanted it so you can have a really good fertile seed bed in the spring and as 21:17 much loose ground and the theory on it was if we rip it will get more water down in there. So the crops in the spring The Roots can 21:26 go deeper into the ground. That's still the case today by all means but our no-till these 21:32 big crops that we grow now, you know, we raise the corn yields the getting a lot better root masses on some of these hybrids and when 21:41 that plant dies you got all the capillaries from the roots and that just helps with tillage. So if you 21:50 can get good crops growing and keep good crops growing that well mitigate a lot of your compaction because you got so many poor spaces where 21:59 your roots in the ground. And that's one thing it shines with our STI on our net offense subsurface drip 22:07 irrigation the beauty of it our biggest worry when we started it was well, we are not going to be able to rip this land if we put these drip takes in 22:16 at 10 inches 19 inches, but our crops are so big on it. You know, you start pulling 300 bushel corn 350 to 100 22:25 plus bushel soybeans every year then you got a barley cover crop growing on you got something growing all the time only the root structure in the ground 22:34 and organic matter. We've increased for organic matter two percent since we've been with a consistent note tool on this subsurface trip 22:43 irrigating ground and there's no need for a Big Brown. Now if we start low in trucks and doing stupid stuff on it and packing it down. We're going to be in trouble. Let's face 22:52 it right there some service drip irrigation that if it was one of our sponsors we've done stuff at your farm. I was there your field day last summer. 23:01 Start with the guys Mr. Wolf and the other guys from none of them. We talked about it. You can't go out there and rip it because that stuff's 23:07 only 12 inches down you go you go through the Ripper. You just ripped out a thousand dollars worth of infrastructure per acre, right? 23:13 If not more. Yeah. Yeah, it'd be it'd be bad. I know one. one farmer, that one has 23:21 Hired Hands went in and ripped up about 20 acres of drip irrigation and it was a 23:27 is still not back in drip to this day. It was a bad deal Okay, so When you use drip irrigation, you're obviously not going to use deep ripping. 23:35 And then you assume that the cover crops that you're putting on in those Acres. The roots go down create porosity and and penetrate can 23:45 they can cover crops break up and I'm not talking about radishes. That was the big thing around here radishes 10 15 years ago, right conditions 23:54 because they went down like a foot and a half two feet down and busted up your your compaction layer and got into your subsoil layer. I can 24:03 barely You said use barley and wheat as cover crops can those? Cereal grains bust up compaction. They 24:11 do help with it quite a bit. They're not quite as aggressive as you're tuna trashes, but then you've got a lot of Trader cow is really 24:20 good. It's a heavier root mass crop than your barley and your wheat we use bar because it's the most economical to 24:26 get and we do so many acres of it. We do have a 75% of our acres in barley cover crops. 24:33 and good The the cover crops is a huge benefit. But the problem you have is the cover crops can only do so much when you get these areas that has 24:44 got damaged from heavy traffic and that's what we're really the conversation was pertaining to that day that you referred to was these, you know, the heavy traffic 24:53 used to you could take you know, someone go with a ripper and go 12 inches in the ground and eliminating anything but what we're seeing is 25:03 These heavy traffic areas. You might have to go 30 inches in the ground. You may have to you might have to actually get it. You know that conversation that 25:12 we had was talking about taking the bulldozer with a or the Construction type Ripper on the back and Rock River. 25:21 I guess you caught it and rip and around edges of the fields or areas where companies that done some excavation work 25:30 and done damage to the sole structure. And what we found is in those areas. We're finding compaction down 24 25:39 to 28 inches where our compaction layer is our traditional rippers our traditional equipment with agriculture. We're 25:48 only going to get down about 16 to 18 inches. I mean, I you know, those are farmer. I ripped at two foot in the ground. Well if he 25:57 ripped it two foot in the ground, it's called he gotten wet hole in the track about that stuff and you know two foot deep 26:03 is deep that is that is deep. So the the cover crops are a tool in the toolbox. Yeah, and they 26:12 are phenomenal, but if you mess up so bad to cover crops can't do but so much. So we're talking about the cost of companion. 26:21 Do you think that in a typical year there could be 10% more Revenue by better yields because of mitigating 26:30 compaction Across America. I think we've got I think we've got heavily packed in soils. I really do and I think it's because of so much tillage in a huge 26:39 equipment. Do you think that we're missing out on yield and we don't even know it. Well, so I 26:45 take your question is if we look at the the US average yield permissible total yield per bushel. How is 26:55 that affected by compassion and a total percentage across the United States if there was Zero compaction issues out there. 27:04 What would it increase by? That's a great question, but I wouldn't I was not fair to say 12 14% 27:14 To the total us average now. That's a that's a Man, that's a big question Damien. It's a big question and you know what? There's gonna be people listening right now that are probably 27:24 saying well, how does he come up with that? We don't we're just more Thinking by our own Farmers. Here's what I'm thinking. We 27:30 know that when you don't have porosity. When inferent water infiltration doesn't get in there's a time when it's dry and 27:38 you get your rain and that it's like a sponge but there's other times when you're like a little bit wet and you're getting some runoff and it's not because your water your 27:47 soil is completely saturated. It's because you've got a little bit of a compaction issue, right and some of that water gets goes away. So 27:53 there's a little bit of a loss of Water Resource because of compaction and there's probably a little bit of fertility that's 27:59 not getting to where the roots are because of compaction. So can you quantify it it's hard to do but we know 28:05 it's there. It's kind of one of those things like how many volts are in that lightning bolt that I hit 28:11 the field hell, I don't know but it's enough to kill you. I mean, he's kind of one of those things. Well, I mean you think about it you got 28:17 You know when you talk, you know, we talk about our equipment side, then you mentioned the nutrition side. So let's say we got in our 28:26 situation. We got heavy magsoles and low low. Calcium and so that calcium the migration shows kind of inverted where it needed to be and so 28:37 we've been focusing for the last 15 years really hard on changing that cast in the migration. We changed our lime Source we're using 28:46 more gypsum. We're good. We're doing things to increase that calcium maintain the pH but yet not, you know, 28:52 we don't want We can't really pull the mag levels down but to a point we can but we're trying 29:00 not to buy anything to add to the Mac. We want we want to build that custom bag and floculate themselves so that we get more important place 29:09 in a more option. And so and that allows us to help reduce compaction as well. So 29:17 Every area in the country has got different obstacles. They face and compassion, you know, I hear about 29:23 the you know, you guys and the northern Midwest with y'all when you're ground freezes your thoughts if and you know, traditionally you get 29:32 a 48 inch freeze and received around and that's kind of your deep Rivers. You know, that was a thought process. I don't know if that's still the thought 29:41 process today. I would think it works but here where we are. We don't have you know, we get it four inch freeze the deepest freeze I've ever seen in my lifetime was 29:50 about a 12-inch death for us later in the ground. And I was very young then and you just don't see that much and and the 29:59 Carolinas but so you got to figure out ways to work it. There's there's just so many different things and you when I look at my size forms. 30:11 It's easy for me to say 10 to fit. I could say 15% of my acres is affected severely by compaction. No question. 30:20 And we go to Lee luber's out into Dakota's and he's got a you know, a 600 acre field or a Thousand Acre field and he 30:29 may only have one or two acres of that 600 that's effective by compaction in the high traffic areas. So you got to look at the geographical region 30:38 that the farmers in and the Landy farms and how the field lays and the traffic, you know, the traffic patterns these it's it's 30:47 a lot of variables in there but I still say that it's a it's the compaction is a healing a hidden yield robber. It's it's a 30:56 big reducer and it's there's a lot more money there. We the little things is what makes us the most money and that's what adds up the most so 31:06 it is a yield robber and then the person listeners might say, well, you know what? I'm gonna do. I'm just going to rip the hell out of everything and we 31:12 don't think that that's really the right thing to do either because if you excessive ripping excessive tillage does 31:18 eventually damage the ground also, am I right? Can't actually I would think so. That's a loading question too because it depends on the Topography of 31:30 the souls and the land so You know some areas it works great in that's just you know, but for us and our 31:39 geographical area. It ever been a tillage we can eliminate is a huge plus we we do not we want to 31:48 know till everything we can you know, some of my friends say never feel but and we've tried to never till but it we still get those small areas that 31:57 we just can't do much with it's just because of our field size, right? So if you had to make a choice since we've talked about some service 32:06 drip irrigation with our friends from that FM. Every acre is has got a netafem in it and you can't ever rip again. Do you 32:17 take that you take that challenge and say fine. I'd love I'd love that. I'll get I'll sell my V Ripper tomorrow. 32:24 I'll be honestly you Damien on that subject. So we're probably 90% dry land non, irrigated ground and 10% 32:33 irrigated ground. I'll definitely be willing to go, you know if I had 32:41 50% irrigated ground, I'd probably I'd probably get rid of the other 40% Yeah next last 32:50 question last question. I want to ask you because this is one of the little debates we have in our text stream a week or two ago that spurred this episode idea on I said, 33:00 to you telling 12 inches and then now tilling down 25 inches. Maybe we event. All we're doing really is is taking the compaction layer lower and 33:11 I kind of reason to that based on back in the days of moldboard plows a moldboard plow went what six inches down and then 33:20 all we end up doing year after year was we just put that big old heavy plowshare at six inches or 33:26 five or eight whatever the hell you was probably about six and that's where the whole plow layer became and 33:32 then that's when we came up with this whole idea about maybe we should be ripping below that but eventually maybe you're 33:38 just lowering the level of confection. Do you you disagreed but I and I'm not sure I know I'm always posed it posed as a question your thoughts. 33:47 So the reason I disagree is, you know, I was I was I never liked the green business, but I did grow up with my 33:56 parents and a very large great company and Got to work with a lot of soil engineers. On I learned a lot about Soul structures 34:07 and compaction because they wanted compassion. Yeah, right, you're making roads or whatever. Yeah, they're making roads and huge commercial building projects. So 34:16 compassions a big deal and the most fascinating thing we've done was a cleaned upon and it was just pure mud 34:25 bottom and there was no bottom in it and we're like, what are we going to do? 34:32 And he says well, we're gonna bridge over and I said, okay, so we did a we did a 48 inch 34:42 lift on that mug and it was no Foundation there. They did 48 inch lift for that red good red clay topsoil the first 34:51 36 inches, they would not allow nothing, but just the bulldozer to drive over they did not want any compaction done whatsoever 35:00 on that soul. Then after that 36 inches they put in. They we rolled it in would just the truck. That's what they wanted a big big dump truck to roll 35:13 it in rubber tired, smooth. No vibrations. That was a big deal. And the vibrations they concerned would bring 35:21 the moisture up into it and create mud, which they did not want. They wanted to seal that off. So then they took and did 35:29 a two-foot lift and then started compacting at a hundred percent compaction. Every six inches always up. and 35:37 but what he taught me in that I was really questioning how this was gonna work if it was gonna stay what was going on. How could this be possible? 35:47 and On our soil types now. I'm not talking about Soul types in the midwest. I'm about these red clay soles here, Piedmont, North Carolina. 35:57 that particular situation if we have once you get about I believe it was 24 inches of Soul right there. 36:07 It would bridge over and carry. It didn't carry the load below that much. But you got to get big now. You put a big 100,000 bushel 36:16 grain been up. Yeah, it's gonna push you're talking. Thousands and thousands of pounds per square inch we're talking about. 36:26 Combines across Lane so you give me a 24 we'll just say 30 inches or so. And that compassion layers gonna stop in 36:38 that 30 inches. It's not going to go below that that solves already. So heavy head but 36:44 Do you think we read you think at a certain death? We reach as much compaction as there can be because of what's already been accosted or what the heaviness 36:53 of the soil already is. I think you're close on that. The the weight of our equipment is only going to go a certain percentage of death in the 37:05 soul. Okay, you know you take a d10 dozer d8 knows or versus a D4 Dozer that da is 37:14 going to create a much deeper Soul compassion layer than that D4 but to say that okay, if I rip down 36 inches in 37:23 my heart pants don't go down to 48 inches. It will not do that. And what I've seen working with soul Engineers out here now, they may 37:33 be certain Soul types that it would do that now that and that is considered the way to the equipment stay in the same above now, 37:39 if you increase the way to that equipment by 50% then you're going to expand that limit. Well, that's an episode that's an 37:48 episode for another day because I have my theories that eventually equipment's going to start getting smaller because it's going to 37:54 happen pretty quickly because it can't get any bigger and it's gonna become autonomous. That's what I wrote about. 37:59 Look, by the way, and I'm going to talk about that on another episode. But while we're talking about the cost of compaction how to 38:05 avoid it. I want your final thoughts. We think it's we think it's costing people money that they don't see it's kind of Shadow. I think 38:11 it you and I both agree compacted soils are probably a little bit of a shadow yield a demon. We we don't really see it. It's kind of 38:20 like a windstorm you see compassion. You don't see you and I both you're like, yeah, unless you've done something about this. Yeah, right. Yeah. Well you 38:30 see it. When your yield with your yield monitor, you're closing thoughts on costactions you and I both agree. That's costly and we 38:36 don't always see it and we probably we can't we can't control the size of equipment right now tire pressure was one of your big recommendations make sure you are looking at 38:46 that because that can mitigate a lot of stuff and then obviously managing your conditions. And then you said that you are very 38:52 selective about using their deep tillage. You'll do it only where you've been loading and we got a real problem any other last 38:59 final thoughts on cost of compaction but be smart about how you drive through your Fields how you lay them out? 39:07 What you allow to drive through the fields? Yeah there you just don't drive all over, you know driving patterns do 39:16 things where you try to take the shortest distance out of the field. Be smart about it because it pays huge 39:24 dividends. Yeah, and I guess the other one we talked about that deep tillage. It's really not a cure all it's not I mean you do it where you have to but it don't prevent 39:33 it from happening again. It's just you're just trying to fix what you've done broke. I mean And then I think that's probably by 39:42 the way if you deep tilt every single year, do you think it would mitigated or I think it just you still you're still fighting the same problem that you could be 39:51 better to avoid than to mitigate or then to cure right? I would rather see more cover crops used. That's what I mean. It's it's 40:00 just so good for the environment and that's that's what I like and it's good for your soil and having something living on that ground is good for ground. Oh, 40:09 it's beautiful. It's huge and it's it's just amazing and you know, Nutrient management, I mean we're almost we're gonna get 40:19 off on a whole nother tangent here, but those cover crops are a huge part of your nutrient management is those things Decay and 40:25 die out during the summer, you know, we're testing so many products now that are helping break that down and residually give at food that nutrition 40:34 to those crops throughout the season. I think I did you just you just set us up for two future episodes one about the size of equipment and we'll 40:43 eventually change and then to all about cover crops is gonna be one and I want to bring in a couple more thousand foot. You said it was gonna be smaller and I 40:52 agree. That's the first thing you've agreed with me on and almost a year me being involved with extreme AG, but I appreciate it. His name's 41:00 Kevin Matthews. He's one of farmers are extreme. AG will talk about the cost of compaction and how to avoid it. My name is Damien Mason, check 41:06 out all of our awesome content. I mean you're talking about hundreds and hundreds of videos. These guys have produced in a field plus we're over 100 episodes of this cutting the curve podcast. You 41:15 can watch it the videos we can also just listen to and you're not working, you know, it's a great resource share with a friend extreme AG dot Farm till next time. Thanks for 41:24 your by the way. Thanks for the contribution, Kevin. To serve monkey until next time it's cutting the curve that's a wrap for this episode of cutting the curve, but 41:32 there's plenty more check out extremead.farm where you can find past episodes instructional videos and articles to help you squeeze more profit out 41:42 of your farm cutting. The curve is brought to you by Advanced Drainage Systems the leader in agriculture Water Management Solutions.