00:00 It's a buzzword that's been used a lot. But you know what? It's time for agriculture to repossess it. Yeah repossess it. 00:09 I think it's time that we reclaim the words sustainable and talk about what it really is and more importantly how you can apply 00:15 sustainable farming methods on your farming operation and make it profitable for you. 00:22 Welcome to extreme ads cutting the curved podcast where you get a guaranteed return on investment of your time as we cut your learning 00:31 curve with the information. You can apply to your farming operation immediately extreme AG, 00:37 we've already made the mistakes so you don't have to managing your Farms Water Resources is a critical component to a successful and sustainable 00:46 farming operation Advanced Drainage Systems helps Farmers, just like you increase their yields up to 30% with their technologically 00:55 advanced Water Management products visit ads pipe.com to see how they can keep your business flowing. 01:04 Now, here's your host Damien Mason. Hey there thanks for joining us for another fantastic episode of extreme airs cutting the curve. We have a hot topic for 01:13 you. We're talking about sustainability. And I know you're rolling your eyes right now saying oh God. 01:18 All right. It's an overused buzz word. It's been out here in a marketing capacity for at least a decade and we hear about sustainable AG as I always say 01:27 ask a hundred different consumers for a definition of sustainable agriculture. And you're going to get 100 different answers. It's gonna be way different. If you go to Whole Foods than if 01:36 you go to say Walmart, I got Matt miles and Kelly Garrett to the founders are extreme AG mats out of McGee, Arkansas, and he's out of Northwest, Iowa. 01:45 Matt brought us. An expert he brought us a guy named Christian barkhand. He's the VP of sustainability for rabo. AG refinance rabbit Bank as a world's largest agricultural 01:56 lender rabo, you know has a Global Perspective and Christian has that Global Perspective and brings it to us. So let's go ahead and kick right off here rabo agrofinance 02:06 is a big picture stuff. You're here just because you're gonna code it tow the company line. You're gonna tell me hey, you know what? We're about sustainability we care about 02:16 in fact, we use recycled cups and all of our break rooms across the world. Is that what you're gonna tell me Christian not at all 02:22 sustainability is very simply put it doing more with less and we need to drill that into the mindset of 02:33 People that are involved in the space, including our farmers and ranchers because it is not a 02:39 topic that we need to be scared about. This is a topic that we should embrace that we should thrive on 02:45 because it's about an opportunity to actually Feed the World more sustainably. We're going to have 10 billion people by 2050. If 02:55 you don't believe it'll look at the trends of population growth over the past 30 40 years. We're adding 1 billion people every decade 03:04 to this planet. Um We're not gonna have enough food. We're not gonna have enough water to feed everybody. It's a hundred 03:12 million people a year that we're going to have to feed with. Food that it's supposed to 03:19 be safe and plentiful and affordable. We have a great opportunity. We have a great opportunity to tackle that 03:31 in the US be the Bread Basket of being the or supplying most of that food doing more with 03:40 less produce producing 60 70% more food over the next 30 Years with the same input and at the end of day that's what sustainability is all 03:49 about now. It's not just environmental optimization or stewardship. It involves economic sense and involves social 03:59 benefits for the inconsumers at the end of the day and for our Farmers as well in the workers that are employed in this process. 04:08 So that combination with the continuous Improvement mindset with doing more with less at the end goal. This was 04:17 sustainable. That is all about I I agree on all that and Kelly and I have talked about repossessing and 04:24 I mean it's like a word we always think of when the bank comes to take your car that you haven't paid for. But I'm talking about us 04:30 being the bank and we're repossessing the car that that we let the consumer use for long time because they took this 04:36 word to be bastardized it. Is what you do sustainable, Kelly and Iowa. Yes, I believe it is we're trying to do more with less all the 04:46 time. We're trying to have soil Health as a very high priority because of the long-term gain that it has I believe the average farmer 04:55 thinks that to farm sustainably comes with a yield penalty or you'll deficit I believe the more and more we're 05:01 learning about the soil the more and more we're learning about like farming sustainably comes with the yield benefit and the 05:07 yield penalty is actually the farmer themselves. I know that's what the problem is here. And when we educate ourselves and do better sustainability is profitable. 05:17 Matt you and I talked about this. Okay, you go to Kelly's he has to have cover crops as I point out when I first went to Kelly 05:26 Garrett's farming operation. I said, oh my God, I looked around I said if we had Hills like this and in my part of the world in Indiana, we put a chairlift on 05:35 it and called a ski slope. He's farming these things. He had to have these cover crops out there to keep these Hills 05:41 from blowing away and washing away. You don't have that your grounds flat. You don't use cover crops. You're not even no till 05:49 where you are in the Delta of Arkansas. How can you tell me that what you do is sustainable. Well, first of all, we probably 05:58 I mean there's a it's a double-edged sword. So I see the benefits to cover crops even here, you know, our soul washes into the beach and 06:07 we have to clean the ditches out put it back the problem with me and no teal or the problem with me and 06:13 cover crops is furrow irrigation. So we have to have that Furrow here again our crop the top of the field of the bottom. 06:21 Cover crops and and no-till, you know, you think about we're not flat. So we have to have our Ridge Hills. What I what what we call it now has reached to 06:30 you and so you've got to have a pathway for that water to get to the to the other end every 30 and every 38 inches. 06:36 So we're still our rice. We've got 1100 Acre Farm that's been no till other than when we run it for for, you know, since the farm 06:45 was leveled and put into rice production, but the majority of our Acres we struggle with the no-till and cover 06:51 crop so but am I sustainable? I feel like I am I'm using less nitrogen less phosphorus organic fertilizer, you know, 07:00 there's things that we're doing products. We're using out there that enables us to reduce our nitrogen usage. So if we're talking about doing 07:09 more with less I fit in that category really well, I just don't fit in the cookie cutter. Program of it's all about no-till and 07:18 cover crop. I wish I wished I could I wish I could pull a planner instead. I have to have one on Three Points. Yeah you I think 07:25 that's the interesting thing because Kelly and I did this with a true Tara who we work with with extreme AG about this thing. We got to 07:34 get past this thing that that sustainable means organic, you know, I just went through this when I explained the two 07:42 people I go Sporting Clay shooting with they are asking about organic and I said, I said that's all he said, oh my God my wife and CIS on 07:51 everything our games and he says does it really better for the earth? I said actually it's probably Converse. He said 07:57 what I said, they use more diesel fuel because they do more tillage than by the mortillage creates more erosion and more compaction 08:03 then also they use herbicides and he says no, it's organic. I said, there's an entire list of products that are certified organic approved 08:12 according to the United States Department of our culture. I said, some of the stuff is very old chemistry. Someone's not chemistry at all. It's heavy 08:18 metals like copper which then we have copper saturation. He said in organic I said, yeah. Yeah. So there's 08:24 this thing where the person that says the stable things organic and I'm like that's actually kind of the universe of that. So go 08:30 ahead Christian. You're not in your head. I'm not in my head because they were spot on and I wanted to mention something before I get into why I think 08:38 your spot on. We got to think a sustainability as continuous Improvement. I love what Kelly and Matt said in terms of we have 08:46 to celebrate what the US agriculture has done in the last four or 50 years. I mean, these guys have implemented Technologies and 08:55 Innovation that have helped us produce 600. But 360% more corn per acre in the last 50 years, right? 40% more milk 09:04 per same same amount of feed. I mean, these are unbeatable facts. And we could draw the lion and say well based 09:12 on that. We're done. We're sustainable we can be Sustainable just yet. And by the way, we got to start thinking a sustainability as 09:22 a comparative term not the end goal. So a better use of that word would be more sustainable. And the reason for that is we can stop this journey because we got to 09:34 be 10 billion people. We still need to double the amount of food almost with the same input. How is that gonna happen? 09:40 If we're drawing the line we're saying we're done. We got to continue to find those Innovation opportunities and 09:46 do things better and optimize continues input and water and the cover crops and the 09:54 And the note tell options basically help you enhance soil Health the benefit of enhancing soil 10:03 health and nutritional value is the fact that you're going to have more yield. And by the way, you're not going to need that much fertilizer. So it's a perfect 10:12 combination of doing more with less, right? You're not going to use that much Farm input and your real 10:18 is going up. Is it perfect everywhere? No, not necessarily but coming back to organic Damien. 10:26 If you are to do a life cycle analysis study, which is a fancier scientific way to 10:32 compare environmental impacts related to how sustainable certain alternatives are and you do it comparatively. 10:43 You'll find out then most of the cases. The organic production is not necessarily a more 10:49 sustainable alternative. Now there are just like with natural just like with cage free just like with other marketing claims perceived health 11:01 benefits. At the consumer level around this marketing claim and and I think because of that we're always going to have that market in each other. We're always 11:12 going to have consumers that are going to continue to buy organic, but from a sustainability perspective. 11:17 Organic is not necessarily more sustainable than conventional now with that said. 11:22 The same principles apply for organic. They could be made more sustainable over time compared to where they were before continued that journey of continuous Improvement. 11:32 Hey, uh real quickly. We'll come back to you for the biggest question of all, right, Kelly. You're the first guy that that everybody wants 11:42 to go to on this within extreme Ag and it's because of some of the initiatives Again cover cropping and no till farming, but then we look at Matt. 11:52 Not just repossession the word there's gonna be programs coming. There's going to be stuff like right now you're getting some Carbon money. 12:00 Then there's man over here. He's gonna be getting some money to do this thing, but he's not doing the same stuff as you. 12:06 So where does this all go business money? Well Christians stole my line at the beginning when he said do more with less. He's right. Matt said 12:16 that we should have a conversation and I can see that Matt was correct as usual. Oh sustainable farming is 12:22 doing more with less. It's becoming more efficient. It's the use of the stress mitigation products at Matt and I have it's the 12:28 use of the pgrs that Matt and I have it's the use of the foliar fertility that Matt and I have that turns down the drive 12:34 fertility at the end of the day. Everybody wants to measure it by carbon. It's lowering the carbon footprint. It's the 12:40 things that we learned in Sunday school as a kid being a good Steward of the land, you know, the things that Matt is 12:46 doing our sustainable because the processes he's trying to go through he's trying to raise his yield and be as profitable as possible. There isn't any you 12:55 know to say that farmers aren't trying to be sustainable. I I think is very untrue. It's just a lack of 13:01 understanding Matt or Chad or myself or all trying to improve our Roi so we're trying to be sustainable by Nature. 13:10 From that if you if you're not being sustainable, you're being wasteful. I don't know any farmer that's trying to be wasteful because they'll go out of business. Yeah. It's interesting thing. 13:19 Like one of my buddies is an AG entrepreneur. There's I don't know any farmer that is understands business that wants to be using more crop. It 13:29 puts than necessary. You know, it's about return Mass not his head before Tim. I got to go to the big question. Matt brought you on Christian. 13:37 VP of sustainability for raboagrofinance Why the hell do you or why the hell does a bank 13:46 out of the Netherlands care? You're a bank make loans sell stuff. What difference does it make I mean and of course I'm being a little 13:55 bit facetious. But what does it make? What do you care? Ah, well that's you just nail nail it in the head. The reason why I work for 14:05 Robert bank and I am proud to to do so because we're different. Because we have a mission to grow a better world together because we 14:13 don't want to be just a financial lender. We actually want to be a partner of our farmers and 14:19 taken by the hand and and make business out of Agriculture for the years to come in the generations to comment at the same time serve the 14:28 needs of an increased population and feed the world together. So the way you're going to do that just with 14:34 financial lending is really short-sighted. So if you are to truly own that mission of growing a better 14:43 world together with our clients. then we have to partner up and we have to have Meaningful conversations around sustainability and we 14:51 have to have Solutions in place and Matt knows this because we had a meeting a few weeks ago that our AG Advisory Board where we talked about the fact 15:00 that in addition to financial lending. We should be thinking of where our clients are today. What are their needs in terms of moving that 15:09 needle on continuous Improvement in whatever aspects of sustainability whether it's water air emissions, you know opportunities to do 15:18 better Land Management social aspects taking care of the employees Community engagement, whatever and create Solutions packages that we can 15:28 provide to our clients in addition to our financial ending that will take him from here and move them to the next step Christian. Yeah. 15:37 Hey, I just say something we obviously think differently is dentists. They're always going around trying to tell their patients how not to get cavities. If as 15:46 a dentist every kid that comes in. I'm giving Knickers bar and a 2 liter of sugary Pop. I want to see them back in six months so they can pay me 15:54 to put in. I think you're looking at this short-sided. You should tell people like Matt miles. You need to put more crop inputs on 16:00 borrow more money. Just go out there and blow stuff everywhere. Not for banking Matt. Yeah. Well, I mean think about it think of 16:09 the whole business model Out There Our core bread and butter, you know product. It's Financial lending format to operate. He's farm, 16:18 right if he's Farm is successful or more successful. He's gonna need more of that landing and we're gonna continue to stay in business with somebody that's really successful and 16:27 the rest of them not being able to pay back or getting out of business is minimize. If we are to adjacent to 16:36 that provide solutions that are going to take him to the next level. Guess what those Solutions The Innovation Technologies are going to need financing too. So that develops 16:45 Financial opportunities for us for us in Project finance and another types of Landing that we can supply in addition to helping them 16:54 identifying those Technologies and moving the needle on that at the end of the day. They're going to be successful. They're going to want to grow the business. They're gonna want 17:03 to continue move them needle into doing more with less have more output unless input and 17:09 we can be the main partner financing that journey and providing the solutions for that. Isn't that awesome? By the way person it is awesome. And we're gonna get to 17:19 Matt now because he's sitting there quietly saying God Don't Make my banker mad. I was only kidding about that. I know you don't want 17:25 to just keep loading money to him. She can go out there and blow it on crop inputs. He doesn't need but I wasn't really kidding about if I 17:31 was a dentist trust me. I'm a capitalist. If I was a dentist, I would do everything I could to keep those suckers coming back with 17:37 more cavities, you know, I would even encourage all of my patients about this. You know, what I do, I'd say you should take up hockey hockey's a great sport for you. That way 17:46 I could be putting in, you know Bridges and all kinds of false teeth. I'm telling you what dentists need to 17:52 think about job creation. All right, man. I I have a dentist that does exactly the opposite and I keep going back. I've been going about 15 years the 18:01 same guy he you know why he did he basically said look, you're falling short here. I don't want to see a cavity in your mouth six months. When you come back from now. Guess 18:10 what you got to do this laser treatment and you gotta do this and you're gonna have to do that because you have PH balance in your mind. So he comes back with additional 18:19 Innovation that I have to pay for which keeps you might see but being proactive on on my my health. So 18:28 there is a way of tackling that if you're smart. All right, so let's be honest here. And yeah, by the way, you've got the most Innovative mouth I've 18:37 ever seen I never even heard about laser models in your mouth man. Grabbo is in on the sustainability thing and you even get a little 18:46 bit of money. So tell me what you think this journey you go and sit in there. 18:51 AG advisory committee, where do you see this thing going? And we already, you know made the crack about why does rabo care? 18:58 How do you and rabbo make this make sense for your farming operation? You are yeah your I already get it you want to 19:04 use less resources more bushels with less inputs makes more profit which means that you in lane and and Sherry have you know, happy farming 19:13 operations. How does it work with you and them? Well, it's gonna you know, and I've talked to Christian about this probably tell them blue in the face and he's probably 19:24 tired of hearing. So we started with the rebel Bank as a made a program a guinea pig you would say, you know, and I was 19:33 one of the guys and I'm sure Christian thought this maybe one I got selected. I'm one of the guys that didn't fit that cookie 19:39 cutter. So where do I go from here? You know, there's guys in the same program that's getting double over probably double the money that I'm getting now. I'm still getting 19:48 money for some things. I do next year. My money will be better than this year because of you know, different things different practices we're doing where does 19:57 this go from here? You know. I hope one thing I would like to say having my banker involved or my bank involved. 20:05 Rebel is a different. I mean, you can't just call them leaning institution and and I've never been around another lending into 20:13 institution like them my life, you know, they've got carbon Bank. They've got places where you 20:19 can go if you want to if you want to, you know, do not you know solar panels they've got they've got a division of 20:25 that if you wanted to buy and trade options. I got a division for that everything that a farmer needs to be successful rabo has so back to your original question. 20:35 You know what? I'm hoping that happens with a Delta farmer or a raised bed farmer is that we can find a common ground and I've already 20:44 said this I guess to where we can fit in and we can do more with less which we know we're doing more with less and actually increasing yield but it not just 20:53 be about two specific things. You know, am I doing more cover crop than I did before I got in this program. Absolutely. Am I doing more no-till then 21:02 then I was before this, you know, absolutely so my farming practices. I'm trying to change as much as I possibly can to fit the 21:11 mold, but my goal is with with the help assistance of Robbo and and maybe true Terror whoever is to to make 21:20 it a little more easier for a guy like me to City and Kelly fit in pretty easy because that was his normal farming practices to begin with, you know, Temple fits 21:29 in pretty easy because he's he's cover crop on everything. We have a look we struggle with that. So we're trying hard to to 21:36 do it and I think we've done better, but we've still got a long way to go and hopefully there will be a compromise in the future. 21:42 Yeah, so Kelly first off. You've got the most experience your go-to guy you and I met because of the carbon thing. Where does this 21:53 go? Where does this go that? I want to get Christmas perspective of where it goes. I mean, you know, it's neat for us to say. Hey, we're 21:59 gonna tell her by what sustainable farm he is. I don't know my neighbors out here in the suburbs of Phoenix. They don't care what we think. I mean, I'm not being mean. They 22:08 don't know Matt miles or Kelly Garrett and their their Suburban, you know United States America residents we can go around and tell her by what we think sustainability is doing more 22:18 with less, etc. Etc. But do they they don't necessarily care. So what where's it go? Where's it go for us and does it end up getting to where the 22:27 consumer does even have an awareness of what we're talking about? I believe the next thing will be, you know, nitrogen reduction 22:33 credits. You know, we've been through carbon offsets. We've been through carbon insets. I was just in a program of trutera 22:39 one of 25 Growers to be in a nitrogen Reduction Program, you know to try to help develop the algorithm. I believe there will be other nutrients come 22:48 after that. I sure hope there will be because I believe it's correct because I believe raising more with less is what 22:54 it's all about. It shouldn't be restricted to just carbon and nitrogen. So I believe it expands, you know, 23:00 they're more and more companies are coming on. They appetite for acres is more than what Acres exist 23:06 in the United States. So I believe this is very much part of our world. I believe that's coming more and more all the time and we need to figure out a way to adapt and agriculture needs 23:15 to figure out a way to help tell their story or they're going to be told what to do. Well, that's probably gonna happen. Anyhow, based 23:21 on the numbers and we can talk about what's happening. I agree, but we know about Japanese in Europe. Yeah. 23:28 Well, let's use it. Let's look at an example what happened in Europe and because of that let's have agriculture rays of raise their 23:34 voice and say this is what's happening here. And this is what sustainability means and let's you know, let's let's not 23:40 argue about it. Let's talk about it in a positive educational way and help educate the public and educate your 23:46 neighbors on what it means so we can help write the story and not have to be told what to do 100% of the time of these. 23:54 Christian does it get to where is rabble gonna be a broker? Is it going to get to where Unilever there's 24:04 a European company? I guess I'll stick with European since grab those European base Procter & Gamble. You're unilevers the Procter & Gamble Europe. If 24:14 you will did they then bring a bag of money do they bring up billion dollars to rabo and say, you know what you have such reach with all these Farmers 24:23 globally. We're gonna here's a billion dollars in a bag. We're gonna give it to you and pay Matt miles 24:32 in, Arkansas. A little bit of money. He's gonna reduce his nitrogen and his carbon and then we 24:40 want you to be the broker rabo because you've got the connection with Matt and then you'd say well, why do 24:46 you want to give a billion dollars away globally Unilever and they say because we want to prove that we care ours because 24:52 we want our shareholders to know that we're we're out here on the environmental front. How does it work? And why do they and why do they do it? Take me there? 25:02 Oh gosh so much to talk about so let me say first of all good. Do you like the idea of Unilever? Just bringing you a billion dollars in a bag? 25:11 I kind of think that's a cool idea, don't you? I got a munch on that a little bit of Steel. I honest with you. I haven't seen that happening just yet and I 25:20 got to think about it a little bit. I mean, we do Bank the entire value chain and some of these corporate clients are our 25:26 clients as well. And we do issue carbon credits right now and we do trade carbon credits as a broker right 25:35 now, but we haven't seen anybody knocking on door with the pile of money going like all right, go for it. Um, I think there is there's certain 25:44 limitations in market dynamics that are playing a role right now. I'm just gonna try to lay it all out there. 25:56 So number one. They're a whole bunch of Brokers that are already in the market today that do just that brokerage. Okay, they're most 26:07 of those Brokers especially in the United States. Don't follow necessarily try to 26:14 with the existing standards and protocols. That certified the carbon credits and we do as well. The problem is that those 26:22 Protocols are so narrowing scope right now that it's almost impossible to feed someone through the requirements, right? So you 26:31 have to options either you issue a very tiny amount that the carbon credits that are certified right now almost non-existent. 26:40 Or you go and you open up this whole thing and issue carbon credits that are not certified, but then who wants to buy it? 26:49 So this issue hasn't been solved yet. And that's probably one of the limitations and the reasons why multinationals haven't 26:55 come in with a whole bunch of money to one player to say you do it for me because I trust you. Okay, Robin has a fantastic reputation. But and 27:04 and we hope to keep it that way. But but we're we're still pioneering a little bit of Pat in the jungle in this space 27:13 at this point in time. The other thing is I think some of these big accounts before they hand out the money. 27:21 Don't think whether they can do something like that themselves or partner up with someone that's 27:30 going to be somewhat. I would say not a certainly exclusive but tied closer to their business model. So think about you using 27:39 your example Unilever there main business is to sell their products, right? So why wouldn't she is 27:48 an opportunity like this to actually use that type of money in conjunction with your cell of the product and also Supply certain credits for 27:57 certain production methods that are more sustainable and at the same time. They enhance the capability of marketing 28:05 and communication around your Brands and your product out there. So before they come with the pile of money to rob a bank, I think they're gonna number 28:14 one want to figure out where this is going at the end of the day in terms of protocols and issues. 28:22 Issues related to certified credits and number two. Try to see if they have answers on their own. Now what Kelly said about the future of this is 28:34 true my big hope out there is now we're gonna end up at some point with sustainability credits carbon credits water credits Land 28:43 Management credits, you know employee health and safety credits all of them combined together with sustainability craze that can be traded or applied in various forms because that 28:52 a lot more robust. I agree. So if we all agree that that's coming and Kelly is the one because he's he's got the most experience and he's gonna call this buddy Matt and 29:01 say, you know what man, there's this other sustainability credit. You just did some practices and you cut your irrigation gallons 29:07 per acre by 20% Which means we're using less water which is all these kinds of things and then he says great you can get on us. 29:15 Who initiates the program or where's the money come from? Great questions, and somebody has to step up 29:22 to that to that plate. So I'm I hope Rabobank is going to be one of the players that's going to be a part of Consortium of 29:32 other companies that are going to redefine that. I know there are a couple of solutions out there that are 29:40 looking at creating more robust. I would say at least the environmental credits. Um, but it's the there's 29:49 so much that needs to happen before you actually can can create something like that because you have to set up a credible Consortium 29:58 of organizations that first of all come together and figure out conceptually how this is gonna work. Number two. What are the measuring sticks for 30:07 each one of the credits out. There are the certain certified the you know, certifiable criteria 30:13 that basically allows someone to issue the credits and have incredible. Then you have to have nonprofit organizations and the 30:22 rest of the world blessing that and endorsing that there is a little bit of work that needs to be done and I would 30:28 love for Robert to be if we can be a part of that the other thing that might be somewhere as an intermediary step into that direction 30:37 is to going back to carbon credits today more ferment to carbon-intensity scores 30:47 So dear carbon footprint as a farm you say morph you you'd like to see a carbon program that morphs into carbon intensity scores that what I'm hearing. Okay, and I 30:58 mean just Demon Hunter with Continuum act with Mitchell for a long time and we keep on talking about it because I think this is 31:06 Potentially where the future intermediary first step is going to go into and the reason why I'm saying that is because it will require. 31:15 a adequate measurement of of your carbon footprint today a it would recognize the previous 20 31:23 years worth of practices that Kelly has done with no till and cover crops. So we'll automatically take that. 31:29 Well, I'm not I don't fit in carbon credit right now because I've done this for 20 years away because now you recognize for that because that helps you 31:38 offset your carbon Footprints and it comes in as a as a historical offset of that and the practice is that they're implemented 31:47 in today coming to the mix as well. So combining all that together. You got your Baseline you got all these practices that offset your 31:56 Baseline and make you Net Zero first as a farmer offsetting your emissions, and then you take the Surplus and you can 32:05 either treat it as a carbon credit or Stick it to the product and sell your product as let's say low intensity or carbon 32:14 negative. For we're talking business to business, right? Because I don't think it's well then by doing that that doesn't 32:22 there's nothing comes back to us. to whom well, how do we get? How does Matt miles get money in Arkansas? From what you just described what you just described is there's a 32:32 premium on the low carbon intensity green. For exactly. Yeah, and so I'm on a low cost carbon intensity grain and if you're smart, you 32:41 can actually take a portion of that and stick it to the product. So you can do that premium that kill is just saying and it can take another portion of that Surplus and sell it as a credit. So 32:50 now you get money from two places. All right, so you get it. So it's it's right now again organic grain organic soybeans are more than double the price of credential soybeans 33:00 Kelly. So is this where this thing goes you get certified to be as a low carbon and producer so you have low carbon intensity green. 33:08 Or the problem with that of course, ultimately everything reverts to commodity. 33:13 does It does, you know and and like Christians talking about you know, that, you know lowering your carbon intensity score. You know, Mitchell has told me he doesn't 33:23 think there's two farms in the state of Iowa that have a better Carbon intensity score than his in mind and he believes that that 33:29 is the way that people he believes. That's the way the world's going and it should it should that's majoring raising more with 33:35 less that's measuring your carbon footprint that's measuring your practices things like that. And and what 33:41 it's all about is improving you're improving your car with intensity. So right now point is Kelly you got you've got the you already because of the 33:50 things you've done for 20 years. It's a you've already qualified but now you've qualified for something you can't even get a premium for so 33:56 then it's kind of like why the hell did I bother Well, yes, but we're kind of on the Forefront or The Cutting Edge here trying to 34:05 tell the story and get it to where we want to go. You know, and I still qualify for I qualify to sell carbon insects. 34:11 I was qualified for carbon offsets now, like I said, we're part of this nitrogen Reduction Program, but we're trying to steer The Narrative through Robble Bank 34:20 and trutera and the extreme egg soil Health Initiative. We're trying to push this narrative in the direction. We think it should go and 34:26 I'm very thankful that someone as large as Robble Bank that Christians aligned with sees things the same way we do it it makes me feel like we're headed in the right direction. We're supposed to call them 34:35 rabo AG refinance by the way. Yes. Sure. Oh you see one of his shirt just so you know also Christian. We're big on swag around here. We probably 34:45 hear that too. If this thing grows, maybe you can get us a Rambo AG refinance shirt like that. I'm happy to do that. Any time answer me this then man. 34:54 Where's it gonna go? Yes a little bit. You're gonna drive by the way if you're watching this 34:59 As in Hot Pursuit right now in the Delta. He's got three planners going and four pieces of cultivation equipment if I call 35:08 this three planets five Planters going you get money right now from rabo. It's not a lot. I mean, I think let's admit that. You're not getting a lot. 35:21 You're not you're not paying for your you know, you're not paying for your your mortgage based on the Rambo environmental 35:27 credits. Where is it go for you? As far as in the future. Yep. Well, I've got I mean we've said 35:38 yes, but I've got to do it. It's something that I'm gonna have to do whether it you know, hopefully it 35:44 will make enough money for me to at least cover my calls, but eventually we're all gonna have to do it whether we want 35:50 to or not. Even if we have to pay for it out of our pocket. So, you know I get money for the things I can 35:56 do that's in the program today. Hopefully, you know Kelly brought up nitrogen credits. That's something that I can hang on quick. You you 36:05 brought up less water. You suggest something I can knock out the park. So, you know, hopefully for me that it gets better, you know, we're in 36:14 and it will get better if it gets better for me it even get that much better for Kelly, you know or a person that's doing what Kelly do. 36:21 So I'm good been in praying that my man Christian to come up with something. That's a lifesaver for me. All right. So Christian, is that incumbent upon 36:33 you now, is that what rabbit is that? Your job is your job right now saying hey, we used to think it was carbon now, 36:39 it's carbon and nitrogen God knows they're using nitrogen as the excuse to take away Farms from people in Holland, 36:45 which I'm completely against a different subject for different day and then there's water usage and then 36:51 there's a phosphates in Ohio. We've had an algo bloom in Lake Erie for 20 years that was attributed. No offense to me. It was because 37:00 over usage of phosphorus in the Lake Erie Watershed we've got these issues. Are you out here on the front? 37:06 Is that what your job is is saying let's figure out where to get money for these guys that are doing stuff. It ain't just carbon. It's phosphorus. It's 37:12 nitrogen. It's water usage. It's diesel diesel reduction for God's sakes. Kelly. Kelly doesn't use as 37:18 much diesel some farming operations because of his practices. Yes, um that is part of my job. Yes, but I cannot 37:26 do that on my own and I need to rely on partners and I also need to rely on the awesome Folks at Rabobank that are going to help me with that. 37:35 So right now we have a complete separate structure within Rabobank that deals with carbon credits. So we call it rabo. Carbon 37:44 Bank. Um, we have have a an awesome colleague. That's spearheading that program. As one element of sustainability the bigger umbrella 37:55 that I manage in the United States and through them using that one as a backbone. We're looking at two things. How can we continue to 38:04 improve that program? So Matt actually gets a benefit the tangible business benefit out of it and number two. How do we take it to the next level 38:13 and that is combining it to with other credits like we talked about or go to other market segments like the median industry. Why is everybody focused on 38:22 just main crops? Why can't we go on, you know ranching and and pasturing and cow calf operations and do the same thing with issuing carbon 38:31 credits from there. So there is a lot going on. I wanted to say that Matt actually has helped us tremendously in 38:41 understanding the limitations of the program and the opportunities that we have to go the next level and and just to add more 38:50 to that layer. our scope with this carbon Bank program in the US has always been Improve Improvement of soil health and reduction of 39:02 farming inputs. The carbon credit is the cherry on the cake. Okay. So yeah, just you get paid for that, but you should see an uptake. 39:11 and Matt knows this because one of his neighbors, you know, it's in the program and has seen that you should see a little bit of a not uptake on 39:17 your input and and a reduction in the In the farm input costs so Kelly that's kind of your point. Is that the little the payment 39:28 is the is the Cherry? Yes, you know the things that I'm doing to farm sustainably are agronomic reasons and 39:37 the payment is the cherry on the top. It's free money. Right exactly man. You bro. You brought Christian here. 39:44 Send us out the door. You just said it you already said it's coming. It's coming. We just got to figure out how to navigate it and make 39:53 money at it. So no matter what we say about staying ability. It's really about what we can do and and make it make money. 39:59 Yeah, it's what we can do and and hopefully, you know, one of the biggest problems I would think Christian would agree with this is farmer adoption to this, you know, 40:08 opening farmers' eyes that they're not you know, what they're the information they're providing is quality information. It's not 40:14 going to get you in trouble. If you're not doing it, right. It's gonna give you a you know, a guide to how to do it right 40:20 and you know, just we've got to work together and be more educated and what exactly is going on, you know, everybody knows what carbon everybody's heard 40:29 carbon credits now just like they had sustainability 10 years ago right. Now. Let's prove to let's prove to them. You know, 40:35 what's gonna happen? And I think that's where we go from here. 40:39 And and we still don't really know do we Christians. So I guess will you come back? Will you be a recurring guest to keep us abreast 40:45 of what's Happening? Yeah. Absolutely. I would love to I so much appreciate the invitation and Matt making 40:51 the connection and I'd be more than happy to be back in the program and have more meaningful conversations. Well, I appreciate being here and and I know that sometimes I'm 41:02 difficult, but that's all right, you know, it's it's how we get to where we want to go. His name is his name is Christian barkhand VP sustainability 41:11 rabble Agro Finance, we're gonna bring him back another I'd say and recurring role to talk about new developments 41:17 on this with the extreme AG Zone soil Health Initiative coming down the road with Partnerships. We already have with some of the companies with where this 41:27 thing is going with Matt, you know looking Way Beyond just the the things of no-till or cover crops, but also reduction of input usage 41:36 and then obviously Kelly is sort of our season veteran on this front of ecosystem marketing so Kelly Garrett and Matt miles and 41:45 then Christian Barkan. Thanks for being here till next time. My name is Damian Mason, and this is Extreme Ice cutting the Curve. 41:53 That's a wrap for this. Episode of cutting the curve but there's plenty more check out extremead.farm where you 42:00 can find past episodes instructional videos and articles to help you squeeze more profit out 42:06 of your farm cutting. The curve is brought to you by Advanced Drainage Systems the leader in agriculture Water Management Solutions.