00:08 Welcome to extreme AGS cutting the curve podcast where you'll learn from the experiences of America's most Innovative 00:17 and successful Farmers as they shorten your learning curve increase your yield Roi and profit this episode of cutting the curve is brought to 00:26 you by Sylvia's Financial the company that offers customized Risk Management Solutions for your farming operations. Sylvia's 00:32 Financial integrates crop insurance with government programs and Grain and cattle marketing to achieve profitability for your farm. And now here's your 00:41 host Damien Mason. Greetings to another fantastic episode of cutting the curve today. We're talking about the five biggest commodity marketing mistakes that 00:50 the good Folks at Sylvia's Financial sea. All right, let's face it agriculture is a business. We're in the business of producing a commodity in general. We're gonna 00:59 speak specifically about the two biggest Commodities produced in North America and United States of America agriculture corn 01:05 and soybeans corn and soybean marketing. I have been around this whole life. If you're listening this you probably have been also and we know that we 01:14 always have this thing. Oh crap a sold too soon. I don't know why I pull the trigger back then should just not done anything and I'd made extra Buck a bushel. We're gonna 01:23 talk about all of those Coulda Woulda shoulders and the problem with making decisions emotionally. He's making no 01:32 decisions. We're gonna talk about all that stuff. I've got Sean Finley and Bryce guz they 01:38 are risk advisors with Sylvia's Financial. It is their job to help you remove the emotion from your business decisions and make your farm have profitable 01:47 outcomes. Now do they guarantee profits? They of course are gonna put an Ashford in there and say we don't guarantee Province. We tell you how to be probably tell you 01:56 how to not be stupid. We tell you how to not make the five biggest come out of the marketing mistakes that they commonly see 02:02 in their business now dear listener, they gave me five and I'm gonna tell you that it might be a couple of offshoots from 02:11 these as we get going because a couple of these I actually am gonna disagree with them about but I want to go with number one and this for 02:17 You guys Sean and Bryce by the way, thanks for being here. Yeah, thanks for having it. And if 02:23 you've been a viewer before dear listener, you might notice that a lot of times when prices on here like the first time he was recording from a closet. He's moves. 02:32 He's moved houses. He's a young guy he got married and like he's living on and I think that he married 02:38 his girlfriend that then it comes with a farm and I think the in-laws did that thing where they stuck him in an old farmhouse like that. The sharecroppers used 02:47 to live in and they've been letting him bump up along. He's sort of like improving his steak within the within the 02:53 family if you will. So if you're watching this you'll see he's actually yeah nice little office background there. Finally. Yeah. Thanks. We 02:59 actually got upgrade to a new house not the chair crop or some stepping up a little bit. I guess. I also got saying that I like the movie poster back. 03:08 He's first of you don't know he's from Indiana as Mi he's a pretty guy as am I and even though we're pretty Boilermakers. We're both fans of the movie Hoosiers, 03:17 which is about the history of Indiana. Little basketball. He's got a movie poster behind him. So awesome for you. Thank you. 03:27 Number one five biggest commodity marketing mistakes looking in the rear view mirror versus out front. In other words dwelling on prior sales 03:36 versus unsold bushels Sean and Bryce. I already said that in the intro one the hell to go and sell that for it's a 03:45 dollar 50 more now than it was when I sold. Okay. This is common. It's called sellers remorse. It's called buyers remorse. It's called post-purchase dissonance. 03:55 It's that thing when you have this problem in your head and it's because of a decision you made one week one day one month one year ago involved 04:04 finances. How do you overcome this? Yeah, I guess I'll start off by saying just thrown out example like this year. I mean what end of 04:15 last year beginning of this year? We were looking at 550 corn with these high inputs and we're thinking 04:21 oh we got to pull the trigger on some because we can't afford it to go to three dollars. Like what we it's all a couple years back. So it's like at that 04:30 point in time. That's the best marketing decision that you can make now hindsight when corn is 720. You 04:38 don't feel good about it, but most of the time if you're Hopefully we say that your first sales your worst sale. 04:45 I mean if you sell 10% of your corn at 550. You still got 90% left and hopefully the market did what it did. I mean rally two 04:55 bucks and able to walk in higher profits at those different levels, but you got to start somewhere. I like it. We like it when you're first sale 05:05 is your worst sale and it would then make the question Sean. Well, my first sales my worst sale why not 05:11 just not make the first sale. Which of course there's always going to be a first sale. So that's kind of silly thing to say. But anyway, why why would you tell me? No, it's 05:20 all right, just do it because because you have the benefit of hindsight, you know where you're at today, you know, you can always look back and regret whatever decision you 05:29 made because prices went up or you know, really feel good about yourself when it goes down. But you know, if you knew now what 05:35 you thought you knew then, you know, the decision would be completely different like Bryce said, you know, we're helping guys manage, you know, I mean we call them Farms but they're big 05:44 business now and you know, you're managing lots of dollars lots of risk and you know, the goal is to not hit the high every single time and risk 05:53 the boat the goal is to make money and you know, make small incremental steps to kind of achieve in that goal. You'd like to ring the bell you'd love to say and 06:02 this is with everything. Well, I bought Apple computer at such and such. Well, you had to have bought it like in 1981 06:08 when they first brought the Apple to a desktop into Northwest Elementary School when I was a kid before you guys were even born to have really bought it at 06:21 the load to feel good about and the hell of it is and if you to retained it by about somewhere in the year like 1999, you 06:27 said why did I keep that because a lot anyway the point is it's always a moving Target hindsight is always 20/20 as we say, I would say 06:36 this though. It is normal to have this problem where you bump yourself you beat yourself up about a decision you made back then so what is your advice to clients? I heard 06:46 where I say. Well you made the decision based on the the information then still doesn't make you feel 06:52 any better. I wish I hadn't bought something during the calm craze. You know, that's an example. What are you telling me from? 06:59 sensible logical standpoint about the money I feel like it's always better for us to show. Yes you made that sale and you've lost X my 07:10 dollars on that sale, but how much? More profit are we looking at today versus what we were six months ago? Yes, we sold 07:19 the 550 corn say we sold 10% Okay how much more money have we picked up on on the 90% kind of show 07:28 that landscape to them? Yes, we've lost this but we've also gained this I guess I was going through another one. You didn't really lose it. You just didn't 07:37 participate in more more upside. Right? Right. You don't you don't lose on a sale that you make that's profitable. You just 07:46 miss out on potential upside. Right? But it's also very hard to look at a dollar. It's also very hard to let's say look at the dollar 70 Pro bushel and say 07:55 put a dollar 70 over 200 bushels. That's last my math. I think that's 340 that's a huge amount of profit. In fact, 08:04 that could be all profit if the 550 ended up covering your you know, your cost. Um, Unsold bushels. Let's talk about that though. Now 08:14 you've already you've already talked me off the ledge and said I know Damien you could have made more on those you could have 08:20 made more on those bushels that you sold for 550. Now what about the unsold stuff then? Why why do I not just say? Yeah. Well, 08:26 you know what you people screwed me up before it cost me what could have been a buck 70 now, you know what? I'm not gonna 08:32 sell nothing because I don't think you know what you're talking about walk me off that ledge. 08:36 John yeah, so I mean I think as far as you know with the unsold bushel discussion, you know, it's kind of talking. Okay. This is where we start you know with bright saluted 08:45 to this is where we've come. This is the amount of revenue and profit that your farm has, you know, increased over, 08:51 you know, since our last sale, you know kind of putting those numbers in front of the producer, you know and really kind of talking and helping them 09:00 get to you know, making a decision that benefits are operation. So what do I do then about my Untold bushels, you know 09:10 I missed out on before and sometimes there's this thing well now I've got to make up, you know, it's like the guy that loses a hundred dollars at the blackjack table. 09:19 He thinks well now I got makeup at 100 bucks. So I gotta start changing my strategy your recommendation Bryce. That's 09:25 where we start talking about where you have to try your best to take the emotion out of it. Now, we don't want to go in and sell 90% of your crop at once. We like 09:34 to do it in increment. So okay if we sold some at 5:50 we hit 750. Okay, maybe look at selling another 10 15% mean you 09:43 can't really do a blanket recommendation. It's more our job to kind of lay out the market landscape to you 09:49 and say hey, we just made new highs. Market could go here as far as the upside but we do have risk down to here. What do 09:58 you like that on your farm? How much are you willing to risk versus how much are you wanting to be safe and lock in more profit on your farm you 10:07 mentioned emotion and that brings me to the number two thing. I appreciate that answer by the way overcoming emotion of 10:16 margin calls. All right, first off a margin call for the person that says hey, I'm new I listen to the extreme egg cutting the curve because I'm farming with my parents and I I love the 10:25 agronomics. I'm still learn about the marketing. What's a margin call Sean? When you have a hedge on in a 10:33 brokerage account and the position goes against you and you have to basically pay the difference to The Brokerage company to cover that position. Okay. I I 10:42 said I'm gonna sell something and then what happens what? If you sell a Futures Contract of corn at 720 10:51 and corn goes up to 10 cents to 7:30 the following day you owe 10 cents a margin money to the brokerage account. Okay? 11:00 Of course that gets emotional because it's not just emotional. It's financial and you said that one of the biggest mistakes that you see 11:06 is is over is that they can't overcome that emotion. Well, of course not I just took money off my you took money off my plate. 11:14 Yeah, and you know kind of like what Bryce was, you know, the example that Bryce was talking about earlier, you know, if a guy's let's just say for example a guy is 20% hedge with 11:23 Futures contracts in his brokerage accounts, and he grows 100,000 bushels and corn, you know growth goes up. 11:32 10 cents a bushel, you know, he owes that margin money on 20% of its production and what we see a lot of times is producers get real emotional and 11:41 upset over that amount and kind of forget that the other 80% of their bushels are feeling 100% of that upside. 11:50 So they're kind of focusing on the small number when it's a big number behind the scene that 11:56 Is you know really moving the needle? Got it. So overcoming the emotional articles Bryce you're saying that this 12:05 is a mistake that people make but also humans are emotional beings. They're not rational. They're not logical. They're emotional. Now, everybody's going to disagree with that or at least the logical and rational 12:14 ones are but let's face it. I always say people buy on emotion and then they justify it with facts. I took an advertising class. Once that said, 12:24 Half the advertising out there is just to make people feel good about what they already did and they'll do it with a few pieces of 12:30 facts. Well, you know this like yeah, but that's not why they bought it they bought it because of motion. Am I right? 12:35 Yeah, and then that's a what we're trying to say here about overcoming is. They do they enter this position it 12:42 goes against them initially they panic because they're sending in money every single day or every other day so that may hurry up and get out of it. 12:51 Get out of it at a loss and then it goes back down of where you wanted it to go. So not only did you you're you're losing twice. You're losing the first 13:00 time of you getting into it going against you you closing out and then it going back to where it was or two 13:06 is a lot of guys do this for one year. They have a bad experience and then don't ever want to hear out. 13:14 The next strategy dealing with margin like no, I don't want anything marginal. I just want to buy puts or sell cash and that's okay, but you 13:23 might just be missing out on a few shortages by shying away from margin. Got it Shawn anything else on that? I got to tell 13:32 you. I'll tell you based on what we just discussed if I was a green producer. 13:36 I would probably just avoid margin calls because I'm afraid that that part right there. You just said I would have a hard time with it. I wouldn't be able to focus on my operation and 13:45 I would not be able to sleep sometimes so maybe I'm screwy. But also maybe there's a lot of people like me Sean. There is a 13:54 lot of people like you and you know, we we talk about this with clients. There's no right position or right trade for 14:00 everyone. You know, it's finding the tool that works best for your farm. And you know, if a 14:06 marginal position is too much for a producer and they can't overcome that emotion, you know, it's just a losing proposition. But you know, 14:15 it's trying to tie all the pieces of the financial picture of your farm together and you know, make sure 14:21 we make the best decision that we can. Yeah, Bryce see Shawn's okay with me being a scaredy cat and admitting admitting that my 14:30 emotions are such that while I I do have rational logical thoughts. I also know that if I can't sleep at night, it ain't worth it. Am I right? 14:39 Yeah, and then it's kind of our job too to understand the client to some guys are willing to 14:45 take the risk in our okay with being margin honey for penny where there's other people that don't want any margin but some are okay with 14:54 some so just kind of finding that balance. Yes. I'm okay with having margin and having that risk. I don't want to be on a penny for penny. So 15:03 Futures aren't aren't the thing for me now options. I might be okay with that because it's not dollar for dollar penny for Penny. 15:12 It just kind of understanding what the client is. Okay with that's an important aspect of it. All right number three trading 15:21 to make money instead of hedging. Wait a minute. Somebody smart. I think his name was Sean Finley. When we begin this thing said, 15:30 you know, we talk about managing the farm but let's face it. These are big businesses. Okay here in the Midwest where Bryson I are. I don't 15:36 know. Let's say we got neighbors down here Farm a few thousand acres a few thousand acres. I can say what land values are you're talking about, you know $10,000, you know. 15:45 Millions of dollars right there just in the capital in the assets and then talk about the the operating loans you talk about the machinery and 15:54 then now the price of diesel we're off five dollars and 39 cents or something here recording this in the summer of 2022. What 16:00 the hell's wrong with making money. You told me this is a business Shawn. Why are you now tell me it's wrong to trade to make money. I like making money and I 16:09 don't know if I'm gonna take any more of your advice on this Sean because you tell me that it's a mistake to trade to make money. 16:16 Yeah, no and you know kind of what what is getting that is, you know, as a farmer they are inherently long corn. 16:24 You know the second you plant corn you have price risk. Of it going down, you know. So what we see a lot of times is Farmers that think the price 16:34 of corn is going to go up or hope it does so they buy corn on the board or take a position. To make money when it goes up, but they 16:44 already have that risk just because they're farming so you know, what our goal is is to help them understand the difference between trading and 16:53 hedging because the hedging your protecting that money that you generate as corn goes 16:59 up. Because you are already inherently long. And you know not trying to add risk based on what? 17:08 We feel markets could or should do got it. Okay, so I think what I just heard there Bryson, you can help me because you and I you know, Purdue guys. We speak the same 17:17 language here. We're native born in Indiana guys. he's saying that there's people that are are trying to even even 17:28 do better than the corn they have in the ground and they're trying to start swapping contracts around versus just saying no, I'm in the business and my job 17:37 is to hedge against catastrophic losses with the crop that I have. Is that what he's saying? Yeah another way to put it is just speculative training. I 17:46 mean just like with stock markets kind of Co I mean they are speculating corn is going higher so they're not really they're not thinking about the risk that they 17:55 have in the field there is thinking of what they think the market is going to do. They look at the situation and Ukraine and say I don't think you Crane's 18:04 gonna export any more going to 10 to 10 bucks. Yeah, so they're like, well, I'm just gonna buy features or buy calls a guy. I think it's going straight up 18:13 but sometimes they they need to take a step back and realize I might think that but what if it doesn't and I'm not only long the 18:22 bushels that I have out in the But I'm also long in The Verge account and on paper as well so I can hit get hit twice versus 18:31 just once that could make sure that Brian's because you're the expert on this topic here. If I first off there's 18:40 people that have money and they want to they want to turn their money into money. That's the whole concept from from going into scheme and scam Investments to 18:49 just even going and talking to your stock broker. Well, you've got this money your money's supposed to work for you. That's a big thing. They say right you're most 18:55 supposed to work for you. Am I supposed to make you money? Why what if I 19:01 do want to be a Trader? What if I do I mean obviously you have people have accounts there. So what if I do want to be a Trader you 19:07 said that a mistake is to trade to make money instead of hedging. What about if I just want to be a Trader make money? What's your you 19:13 can help me there too, right? Oh, yeah, we we definitely have guys that do that. I mean we have 19:19 people that are straight speculative accounts and they want to trade what they think the Market's going to do versus protecting. I 19:25 mean, we even have some Farmers they have an account for their farm for them to hedge, but they also have a separate account perspective the 19:34 positions where they think the market is going. We're just trying to just show them like, hey, we have to make 19:40 them aware what they are doing versus me because some guys think oh, well Wheats limit down for two days. I I think 19:49 wheat's going back up. What do you think? Or there might be a chance we balances. Okay, okay by me five tracks and 19:57 they're not even growing me and that's okay because that's what you're saying money talks and use your money to make money. It's just knowing you're not doing this to protect 20:06 your farm you're doing this as a risk to make some more money. I was in Vegas once and I think this is important thing 20:13 Bryson Sean. So you're playing roulette and The Marble Falls on red six times in a row. It has to go green next time right because green is due. 20:22 Am I right Sean not always. Isn't isn't it isn't it have to because doesn't the board doesn't that little wheel know that it's 20:32 been read six times in a row. Therefore it has to turn green, doesn't it? 20:36 It you kind of hear my hesitation, but you know, that's what what a lot of times when we get in these speculative conversations right guys, you know, they say it has to 20:45 well, I mean it might but you know, can you wish stand if it goes like in your example red four times in a row, can you withstand that off? Yeah, you know, 20:54 it's kind of finding that balance which is by the way why I posed it that way because reality is thinking I remember once 21:00 telling a stock market advisor to me that they want to put me into this stock and I had read a couple of Articles and they said this was once a 75 dollars stock and 21:09 you're down here 20 I said does that stock remember that? It's supposed to be a 75 dollars stock because it possess a 21:15 cognition that says hey wait. I'm a 75 dollar stock. That stock doesn't know anything just like that marble and the table and frankly just like the wheat market, right? It doesn't remember that 21:25 supposed to be what the person says. It's supposed to be at am I right? 21:29 Yes, and yeah to kind of go off of that. We aren't we don't tell you to not to do it our job. It's just to tell you the risk of where it could 21:38 go. If you want to look into strategies like that. It's more of just knowing what the potential is. All right. So this is we're gonna talk back to Sean. I think you very much price 21:47 is Bryce and our buddies. I don't mind arguing with Sean because this is the number four biggest mistake that you see at Sylvia's Financial 21:53 biggest of the five biggest commodity marking mistakes that you see you're telling me number four is selling for cash flow and tax purposes instead of a marketing plan. You know, what I've 22:02 been around small business for 29 years. I know the value of cash flow. I know when I need money coming through I got to do what I do to make it happen. I also know that I don't can't get 22:11 ahead if I'm giving all my money Uncle Sam what's wrong with me selling for cash flow and tax purposes. Why are 22:17 you picking on me when I am trying to run my business? You know a lot of you know kind of what we see a lot of time is guys making. 22:26 selling decisions kind of around two times of year, you know Harvest when they actually get their physical bushels out of the field and you know kind of 22:35 early spring, you know, whether it's February March when land payments or equipment payments come due 22:41 Seasonally, those are not the strongest time and Market. That's not the highest times that we normally see the two 22:47 times again are when the crop comes out, you know and harvest. Yep and like February March kind of pre-planting what a lot of expenses come do. Okay, so 22:56 that's when they say I need money. Yeah, and that's a lot when a lot of people sell if you go back to 1980 over 23:04 17 years the high in corn has been in June and July. So you're taking right off the bat, you're missing almost half the years High just because you're selling for cash flow 23:15 and tax purposes. And you know, well guys will say well, I don't know what I have until it's out of the field. That's why we buy crop insurance and people 23:24 will delay making a sale because they don't want to take the money, you know in this calendar year, that's fine. But you 23:30 can always still sell the bushels or sell like Futures Contract. And if you have The Bushel soul that the elevator you can always defer the money till next year. So there's a ways 23:39 around that. You know and Futures markets basis and spreads all have different times of the year that they perform the best and the goal 23:50 is to have a marketing plan built around those. And I don't want to say figure out the cash flow in the taxes later. But you know, there's ways around especially, 24:00 you know, taking money and calendar years versus next. pricing anything on that Yeah, just kind of like what he was saying just because you are 24:09 selling the corn in July. You don't have to sell it based off of the the December time frame Harvest delivery. You 24:18 can delay that and sell it say for May delivery the following year like what he said, there's ways around you don't have to get the money this year, but you 24:27 can still sell this year's corn at a later date. Sure. Typically the seasonally the higher price. Yes, that's for the tax purposes, but about the cash flow. 24:36 I mean, let's face it. There is a big squeeze you're saying I can see where an operator wouldn't want to go get a 24:42 big operating loan. Well, you know what? It'd be a bad time to sell because here we are like you said to say, it's March. I'm heading into you know, Sean. I'm hitting 24:51 into planting and I need to buy all my chemicals and some of the stuff I pre ball last year to get it off my books for tax purposes. But damn it. I still need half a million dollars. I've 25:00 got Benz over there full. Why would I borrow money when I can just sell those and you would say 25:05 You know I and I wouldn't talk a client out of that. But kind of going back to you know, the number one thing that we talked about looking in the rear view mirror versus looking 25:14 ahead. You know, if a client makes that decision and sells for tax flow purposes, you know, we have to look at the numbers and say, 25:20 you know odds are six months down the road you might not like this decision. 25:25 You know, so we kind of have to put that expectation in front and you know kind of tackle that head on and if they can't be 25:31 okay with that and they are selling physical bushels at those times. We might want to look at re-ownership strategies, you know to kind of play on the seasonals that corn typically has. 25:40 Yeah and that's the best part. I mean even though humans are emotional if you keep showing them enough charts and say let me tell you why not to sell 25:49 in March and the answer is look at this chart and the chart's gonna say give me that thing again about the June and July 25:56 Over seven. I think it's over 17 years since 1980. The corn High has been in June and July. Okay. So 17 out 42. 26:05 So yeah about what forty two percent of the time. What about the what about the is there ever been time when it has been high at March was every time when it was smart to sell March there I 26:14 think might have been here. Let's totally again what one or two out of 40 to times is still only about four there's 26:23 been four four because 10% of the time versus about 40% of time. So playing the odds which is what you're supposed to do doing that five biggest commodity marketing 26:32 mistakes. We see right. Let's go back to you not having an open mind to use different tools. Different tools. Well, wait a minute. What are 26:43 we talking about here? Is that some of this fancy stuff? You're gonna come in here all this crazy stuff like you did the last 26:49 time we recorded you started throwing out terminology that I didn't know anything about what do we talk about different tools? 26:55 It's kind of what we talk about the last time on the 101 Mark the marketing 101 is don't do everything like 27:01 what your dad did or your grandfather did and just be having open mind to looking at different strategies versus I'm only selling a harvest and that's 27:10 all I'm doing. I mean look at me talk about head to arrive contracts the last podcast we've talked about a little bit of those other tools that we can do. 27:19 Just to give yourself some upside or give yourself better downside protection as they're growing year goes versus just committing the 27:28 bushels on harvest. I mean be opened up buying a put buying a call and just having an open mind to even this kick the tires and look at those strategies instead of 27:38 just Saying no. Yeah, and and I already told you that back to your number your number two about the margin calls and the emotion goes with that. I'm fairly 27:48 simple. I just can say if I was a producer. I'd avoid those and I gave you the reasons why these people that avoid some of the different tools as you call them probably 27:57 are doing so is it because of fear is because they don't fully understand it is or anything. It's because they're too fiction or ways. I think I know what my answer is going to hear yours 28:06 first. I think it's fear and not understanding kind of a combination of those both because their fear is okay. I 28:13 might spend 40 cents on this option and it expired completely worthless. So there's a fear of that and then there's also a fear. 28:22 Well, I don't know how much Corner beans I'm actually gonna produce this year. So I don't want to protect bushels. I don't know that I'm 28:28 gonna have John what's what do people avoid different tools? I I found that a lot of people avoid tools that let 28:36 the bad Pace in their mouth from trying at the previous time. They either didn't have something explained correctly to them. Yeah, 28:42 they got burned or they for or even just they simply forgot why they did it in the first place like that example that Bryce did with a politics firing worthless, everybody complains 28:51 about it and rightfully so, I mean you lost money, but the reason you did that was to hopefully capture a higher price and you 29:00 know most of the time that's why I put expires worthless, but people kind of forget that decision that they made 29:06 Six months ago why they did that but inspired worthless, but it ended up it was a good thing that did because you made more 29:12 money because it did right right puts expire worthless prices go higher. Yes. 29:18 I would see I would see the different tools thing as there's a tourism amount of complexity and I figure if 29:24 I've got to be the business person. I've got to meet with the banker. I've got to meet with my landlords. I've got to be a part-time agronomist maybe a full-time. I've got to talk to my 29:33 crop consultant. I've also got to make sure the Machinery is going maybe I have a couple of employees. I've got to make sure that I'm a manager. There's a 29:39 lot of hats to be worn. And of course you're saying hey, we're Sylvia's Financial. We'll take that we'll take that come out of the marketing part of 29:49 it and help you but then there's probably I'm guessing a reluctance to seed or give up control. I'm already 29:58 in charge of every other aspect of my operation. Why don't want to I don't want to give this up. So what's 30:04 your answer to the operator? It says well, I know you're the expert on this but I'm not sure I fully understand these different 30:10 tools and nine years ago. I got burned when I did something like that. So here we are. So you're response. Of course, you're sitting there at the kitchen table with that operator or in their Farm office 30:19 and you're gonna say what I feel like to we have gotten that but a lot of those guys that are more Hands-On and want 30:29 to keep the cards close to their chest what they like is having someone to bounce their ideas off of I mean Everyone likes to be able to blame someone else 30:38 for a decision that they make down the road to be completely honest like, oh, I'm looking at 550 corn Sean. You think 30:44 that's a good idea for me to do here. I mean, okay, let's look at something else. Okay, we might not sell cash here. But what if we buy it put in 30:52 letter self get some upside instead. Oh, well, I I didn't think of that. I think some of it some guys don't like to be told what to do. 31:01 They like to have a soundboard to bounce ideas off of versus hey, hey Damien, I think that you should buy a hundred of these five these 550 31:10 puts or 50 cents and that's what you should do versus hearing them out and coming up with different solutions for them. Yeah. Yeah showing you 31:19 anything contribute on that different too late different tools. Let's face it. 31:23 Even to people that are somewhat agriculturally knowledgeable. It can be a little overwhelming. You know, there's a lot of different you've got a 31:29 lot of different things in your toolbox that you do while it's all part of a commodity marketing plan. It's it's got 31:35 some it's got some showers say complexity to it. It definitely has complexity and I would say some of the best relationships that 31:41 I have with the guys that I work with are ones that we go back and forth with it's not me telling them. This is what you should do or the them telling me this is the only 31:50 way I will Mark in my grain. It's you know, okay. Let me learn what has worked well for you, 31:56 here's an idea that I'm throwing at you. Let's sit at the table kind of cuss discuss rip it apart and build something together that 32:05 you know, you know when I'm what I'm seeing in the market and how I want to would like to structure hedges for what fish you're operation and 32:14 trying to mold that piece together. Rice, that's a pretty good wrap-up on that one. You got anything to wrap up on the usage of different tools as 32:25 in different instruments. It's really we're talking about it's commodity marketing instruments that can be offered by organizational Excellence 32:31 Financial that give you even more arrows in your quiver, right? yeah, I think it's just totally us understanding the 32:39 client and learning their past and why they don't want to touch those tools and kind of come up with different ways to to go around that I should say or 32:48 kind of just find good strategies that fit the mold for Their Farm in business you gave us the five biggest commodity marking mistakes. We see and I 32:58 guess the big General one. The one that's overarching I would say is that you don't have a commodity marketing plan at all. That is that one is that 33:07 one is that as one you didn't even come up with here. These were one a one B one C One D. One e, 33:13 yeah. Going out and growing it and then saying we'll see what happens sounds a little bit a hundred 33:20 years ago. All right. Yeah. yeah, and with I mean with the tools we have with what we have today and the crop insurance we have I mean 33:29 If you know your bottom lines and know your cost, I mean there is a way to at least have yourself break even during these times. If you are on top of 33:38 it are aware of all the programs that are out there. You know for the most part. I think I'd also say that what Sean kicked off the thing with this is a business, you 33:47 know, these numbers are big. We're talking about seven dollar 20 cent corn right now just use that as an example. We're also talking about glyphosate 33:53 the beginning of the year 2022 was four to five times what it had been just one year ago. We're talking about they're talking about eight to 34:02 nine percent inflation in the general Marketplace, but I can look at agricultural inputs that have done, you know, more than 34:08 eight percent. I'm talking eight times on some of you know fertilizers up two and a half times in some places. Think to go into this without really looking 34:17 at the commodity marketing part of it is probably foolish based on the amount of upfront money. We're talking about spending. Am I right? 34:26 Yeah, yes and you know kind you know, it's a lot of what I would say a lot of the emotion comes from is because you know, when we look at farms, you know, we think of you 34:35 know, Family Farms and you know, this is stuff that was passed down from generation to generation, you know, but what we're trying to do is have 34:41 people look at this like a full-fledged running business, which it is and making decisions on numbers versus, 34:47 you know, just pure emotions but it's it's impossible to remove all of them. But you know try and look at the numbers as best. She can yeah when Proctor 34:56 would practice what Proctor and Gamble do, you know, what what a large organization that has people in charge of the commodity marketing stuff there. So yes 35:05 the big the big mistake that I thought that should have been there was just having no marketing no come out of the marketing initiative at all. These guys 35:11 are Sean Finley and Bryce Goose. They are with Sylvia's Financial Services financials. Come to integrate come out of the marketing as we've just been talking about with crop insurance 35:20 and government programs. That's the the unique value proposition this company brings as they integrate everything. 35:26 Bryce can sit down with you Shawn can too down with you and say all right. Here's the commodity marketing aspect. And here's the crop insurance aspect 35:32 of it. Here's the government program part of it. We'll put it all together. We'll figure out how to keep you profitable. That's what they do if they want 35:38 to find you. Where do they find you to? We're on Facebook Twitter Instagram LinkedIn and also on our website. So these financial.com Sylvia's 35:46 financial.com. I look them up. They'll help you out until next time Bryson Sean. Thanks for getting here. And by the way. 35:55 Price I'm telling you. I'm very happy about the backdrop. Your office is starting to look like a professional office that you can actually go 36:01 in there. You know, what a long time ago. They taught me, you know, you can work on a TV tray if you have to but when you're 36:07 in the surrounding that makes you feel good. You're more productive, aren't you? 36:12 Hey if you thought I sounded better today than I think it's working. I'd say it's worth it too, man. All right, Sean. Thanks 36:18 for being here Bryce. Thanks for being here till next time. It's 36:22 Cutting the curve brought to you today by sellers Financial that's a wrap for this edition of 36:28 extreme. AG's cutting the curve podcast brought to you by Sylvia's Financial Sylvia's advisors show business minded Farmers how to integrate government programs 36:37 with crop insurance as well as crop and cattle marketing to achieve positive Financial outcomes. Learn more at Sylvia's financial.com.